Viscount/Baldwin information needed.

[HarryA122/45]

I'm new at this so pardon my blunders and plunders. I am looking for any information you might have on a Viscount/Baldwin G-404 classical church organ. I'm looking for approximate cost when new and when it may have been manufactured or offered for sale. This is a rocker tab organ of 3 manuals and pedals. Beyond that, we don't know too much. It is not working presently and makes gurgling sounds among others! Possibly hit by lightning strike or power surge of some kind. Thanks for your help.

[jbird604]

That model doesn't ring a bell with me, but I wasn't heavily associated with Baldwin or Viscount during the era of their collaboration. But it wouldn't be a "D" or "C" instead of a "G" would it?

[arie v]

John,

Have you forgotten you just sold a Viscount Prestige II, G-401 organ just a month or so ago?

Anyways, the G-404 is the 3 manual version of it.

These model came out around 2000 and were made till 2008 or thereabouts.

AV

[jbird604]

Oh, I see! Yes, mine was a Viscount G-401... Maybe the Baldwin mention in the thread title derailed my train of thought!

My Viscount was nearly dead when I got it into the shop, but it only needed a reset. Can't recall the process, something about holding in two or three pistons while turning on the power. Maybe someone knows the magic salute sequence.

[organman95]

Oh, I see! Yes, mine was a Viscount G-401... Maybe the Baldwin mention in the thread title derailed my train of thought!My Viscount was nearly dead when I got it into the shop, but it only needed a reset. Can't recall the process, something about holding in two or three pistons while turning on the power. Maybe someone knows the magic salute sequence.

There are only two sequences I know...CTRL+ALT+DELETE or three kicks...

[jbird604]

Is this a Viscount G-404? It's the only pic I could find with those white sliders on the upper left, which are a distinguishing feature of the organ I am looking at.

[arie v]

Hi John,

The organ pictured is a Viscount Concerto III. It had a built in sequencer, a disc drive, selection of organ voices and also128 orchestral voices.

i think it was introduced around 2000.

I don't think many were sold in North America. I have never seen one of these organs.

AV

[jbird604]

Thanks. Maybe the pic is wrong then. I just grabbed this photo off google images because it has the white row of sliders, which were a prominent feature of the organ I saw last week. For some reason I didn't take my own pic of the organ, and all I recall is the white sliders and the fact that it had lighted rocker tabs in side jambs, and was three manual AGO. It was hit by lightning and is available pretty cheap, so I thought I might bring it in and see if it's fixable. (I'm itching for a 3m organ at home!) TBH, it's in a small church with a volunteer player, and my guess would be that it wasn't very expensive or rare, so probably not a Concerto III, if there is any other model with those sliders.

According to the insurance report, the model is "Prestige II" and the serial is 0241200. They think it's 10 to 20 years old, but you never know. I noted that it had four 1/4" plugs inserted into jacks on the rear, and up in the chamber these led to a stack of those Viscount powered speakers.

[ahlborn]

This model is not a Concerto III.
This is a Jubilate 332 (for european market).

Concerto III have similar consolle, but sample are stocked in flash memory instead ROM.
This allows to replace the samples through a floppy disk.

This is a clear photo of a Concerto III

https://stopddiapason.co.uk/wp-conte...o-III-1200.png


This model also existed in the version with two keyboards, was produced for a few years and subsequently replaced by the Vivace line, which had alternative samples stored in the memory, and some improvements to samples.

[arie v]

John,

A fellow in the UK, has a web-site, which show his home instrument, which is a Viscount Concerto III. The organ stops may very well be very similar to the Prestige II line of organs. Certainly as products, they were on the market around the same time.

The guy's web-site is www.stopdiapason.co.uk

Hopefully useful info.

AV

[arie v]

John,

I did some more digging, and come to the conclusion that you were right, the organ is a G-404. The Concerto III is a close cousin to it.

AV

[jbird604]

Thanks for checking into that, Arie. If I do get to bring this one in, is there still a source for a service manual or any kind of support? Norm Ninneman still around?

[arie v]

Hi John,
Several years ago, Viscount North America re-organized, and parts and technical support, was transferred to Robert Darnall, and Norm Ninneman would handle anything older than the Choram line and the Physical modelled products. About a year ago Norm moved to Arizona, and he got rid of pretty much all the Viscount invnentory he had. Only a ,few , bits and pieces were sent to a Florida dealer.

I don't know how much technical expertise Robert will be able to provide. Time will tell how successfull they will be.

AV

[rjsilva]

Just to chime in, I had success with Robert Spoon for providing some ROM chips for my older Viscount that Norm wasn't able to provide.

[jbird604]

Thanks, guys. If and when this organ comes to the shop, I'll check with the usual suspects.

[jbird604]

Went to take another look at the Viscount G-404 today. It's going to be removed from the church next week to make way for a new one, and I "think" the Viscount is coming to my shop unless the insurance company balks at my offer. I messed with it some today, without removing the back, but could make a few speculations. Functionally, the entire system seems to work perfectly. Stop tabs turn on and off correctly, the pistons do what they are supposed to do, the expression and crescendo pedals work, the slider controls seem to work to control the divisional volumes and so on.

The only problem is that ALL the stops in all divisions are distorted and weak, to the point that you can just barely hear them (whether using the internal or the external speakers). But they ARE playing, just terribly garbled. The pitches are clearly there, and the tone quality of the individual stops is also detectable even though distorted.

My working hypothesis is that the lightning damage simply killed one of the power supply voltages that is essential to the operation of the DAC chips. This voltage is obviously used by all the DAC boards in the system. (I assume there are 8 of them, as each division has a stereo output of its own.) So my first step when it comes in will be to identify the power supply voltage sources and test them all. I'm thinking it could be nothing more than a rectifier diode or a 7812 or 7912 regulator chip, assuming that the DAC chips run on +/- 12 volts. The lack of one voltage might cause the audio output from the DACs to be grossly distorted and very low in level.

Second guess is that the problem is in the un-muting system, with the voltage needed to open the gates (possibly FETs) was killed by the surge or perhaps it doesn't reach the proper gating level, and so the FETs are only allowing a very weak and distorted audio stream out on each channel.

Anyway, IF it fixes that easily, and IF I'm satisfied with the sound, I MAY bring it home as my first 3-manual practice organ since I gave away my old Conn 651 all those years ago. I even have a possible prospect for my Allen R-230, as much as I hate to give it up. (It was supposed to be my FOREVER organ!) But I just have the try-another-organ itch once again! And I am intrigued at the prospect of having three manuals.

One thing I was able to tell about the audio of the G-404 is that nearly all stops (possibly all of them) use a C-C# split scheme. The console's internal audio is just two channels (I think), and sitting on the bench playing chromatically, it was obvious that the sound bounced back and forth from left to right with each half-step. That should be a pretty interesting thing in itself, and I trust that the built-in digital reverb will be decent enough to add some additional interest to the sound.

Worst case, if I can't fix the internal tone generation, perhaps it will work as a MIDI controller. Then I can build that custom VPO I've been wanting! The stop list is just about perfect, almost exactly what I would have designed myself, except that the swell is deficient in reeds. But that may be easily correctable with the MIDI box that comes with it.

The pedals and keyboards seem to be of decent quality. The keys have that double-line engravement separating the "ivory" "head" from the "tail" as I've seen on other Viscount organs, and the heads of the keys seem to be just ever so slightly shorter than typical organ keys. But the difference is probably 1/32" or less. Just enough to be noticeable but not a problem. And there is a sort of "tracker" feel as well, which I like actually. The console is pretty skinny, I'd guess it to be 3 or 4" shallower than my Allen, so I'll gain a little bit of floor space in my tiny organ nook.

It also has eight full-size Viscount powered speakers in the chambers, and a separate amplifier and subwoofer. So it should be worth the cost of having it all brought in, even if I can't fix it.

I'll have more to report in a couple weeks.

[jbird604]

TBH, I feel a little queasy just thinking about letting my Allen go. It took me a lifetime to finally get a genuine current-technology (almost) model into my house, with a stoplist so similar to the one I play at church, and the very same Expander module in the drawer.... But that "new organ itch" is driving me nuts! What does one do in this situation?

[myorgan]

Move, John. Move! You need a bigger house.;-)

Michael

[ahlborn]

The G404 (Jubilate 332 in Europe), was an inexpensive organ designed for home practice. I doubt the quality of the G404's samples or sound system is superior to your Allen Renaissance. The G404 has no voicings capabilities, very short and few samples. You have the possibility to choose two intonations (Baroque/Romantique), where some samples are replaced.
But you probably have a lot more editing possibilities with the DOVE software in your Allen.
Certainly you can find a superior quality in the coeval Viscount G515, 3 manual organ.
This model had many more samples and longer than the G404, and moreover have intonation capabilities through an integrated editor (LCD display).

This is a G505 model

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/i...ad9dbaa913.jpg


However I have no idea if it was marketed in America.

Personally, I think the G404 is not superior to your Allen. Almost certainly the G515 is superior, if you find one.