New Viscount Hymmersive

[ahlborn]

Good morning,
Viscount launch a new Hymmersive consolle with oled display stop tab for Hauptwerk, with proprietary hardware, but no internal amplification.

http://www.viscountinstruments.us/hymmersive-372.html

Do you have any opinion?

[arie v]

Hi,

Another example of "if you can't beat them, join them". Another admission from a major manufacturer that Hauptwerk and other VPO programs are cutting into their sales. Eminent and Content are doing this as well.

I believe it was Viscount that made the claim that sampling was yesterday's technology, that physical modelling was the way to go. Just recently they have come out with a new line of sample based organs. And now they are maki gaplug for sample based VPOs. Sounds tome that their physical modelling organs are not selling as well as hoped. But then organ sales are tough to come by for everyone these days.

AV

[organman95]

Which also brings up a question..what's the difference in sample technology between the "Vivace/Chorale" line and "Chorum" line?? I assumed that by this time, the only real difference would/could be the length of the sample.

[rjsilva]

I personally think it's the best way to use a virtual organ (i.e. like an organ), but I don't think organ manufacturers should be making both solutions. Trying to make everyone happy with your products is rarely a long term sustainable goal of excellence. But then again Arie spells out the problems they face.

[ahlborn]

I have a Sonus 40 (Physis) at home, and for me is a beautiful organ I ever played...
Sampled vs. Ph.modeling organs? I dont know the winners, bur for me the two technologies are mature today for creating a very best organ.
The big difference, at my ear, is in the amplification/loudspeaker system..

[arie v]

Hi,

From what I have heard, the Chorum line is the replacement line of the Vivace series. It is said to be a noticeable improvement over the Vivace in terms of sound. The technological platform is new. My guess is that the Choram line has better samples, as in higher resolution samples, more of them, likely a better audio system. In terms of setup and voicing it is still rather basic.
My thinking is that it was easier and lower cost for Viscount to design and bring to market a sample based system than to make a cheap physical modelling line of organs, that may not sound any better.

AV

[organman95]

Hi,From what I have heard, the Chorum line is the replacement line of the Vivace series. It is said to be a noticeable improvement over the Vivace in terms of sound. The technological platform is new. My guess is that the Choram line has better samples, as in higher resolution samples, more of them, likely a better audio system. In terms of setup and voicing it is still rather basic. My thinking is that it was easier and lower cost for Viscount to design and bring to market a sample based system than to make a cheap physical modelling line of organs, that may not sound any better.AV

I can see that. But are they samples of pipes, or samples made from a physical model?

[Silken Path]

Having messed around with several Hauptwerk organs and having spent time trying to find the noisy pedal or out-of-tune or resonating key, which I could celebrate for authenticity I guess, I wonder what an organ built out of PERFECT tones would sound like. (For some reason L. Hammond thought they needed to be muddied up some.)

[rjsilva]

My thinking is that it was easier and lower cost for Viscount to design and bring to market a sample based system than to make a cheap physical modelling line of organs, that may not sound any better.

Interesting thought. I have been wondering what processing power is needed to run Physis. I've also been tempted to peek inside Walker Technical's Poet system to see what they use.

[nullogik]

It looks like this will be retailed for around the USD$12-13k mark judging by what some European retailers have it up for.

Presumably this is a fully integrated "instant on" solution (or as instant as it can be) that some people are looking for rather than having to fiddle around with Windows/Mac OS?

I like the use of the OLED screens and with 72 tabs it will accomodate the largest Hauptwerk samples. The execution is a lot nicer IMO than Johannus' slightly clumsy e-ink displays on the LiVE.

As Arie says its quite telling that one of the biggest organ manufacturers has decided to go down that route. Especially one with such a broad range like Viscount that covers both sampling and modelling producing organs at some of the most competitive prices out there. It will be interesting to see how the other big players react as Hauptwerk sales must be hurting them in the same as it is with Viscount.

[Admin]

The Viscount site states it's running Windows, although it does not state which version. It's possible they're using a customized, embedded version, which could result in faster boot up time, but then again maybe not. With an SSD, I don't think it would be much of issue either way. What it does do is effectively provide a less computer-centric appearance with computer hardware and OS presumably optimized for Hauptwerk.

It's possible they're undermining their other models by offering this console, but with the OLED displays, they're also offering something that is currently not practical to retro-fit to recycled consoles. I think this is a sensible addition to their product line.

[organman95]

The Viscount site states it's running Windows, although it does not state which version. It's possible they're using a customized, embedded version, which could result in faster boot up time, but then again maybe not. With an SSD, I don't think it would be much of issue either way. What it does do is effectively provide a less computer-centric appearance with computer hardware and OS presumably optimized for Hauptwerk.It's possible they're undermining their other models by offering this console, but with the OLED displays, they're also offering something that is currently not practical to retro-fit to recycled consoles. I think this is a sensible addition to their product line.

I've played around with Win 7 on an SSD...you almost HAVE to customize it to make it do near-instant 4+GB file changes. There is too much extra b.s. in the Windows OS (and Mac OS) to work as quick as is needed for this setup on a "normal" installation, even on SSD.

[Admin]

I've played around with Win 7 on an SSD...you almost HAVE to customize it to make it do near-instant 4+GB file changes. There is too much extra b.s. in the Windows OS (and Mac OS) to work as quick as is needed for this setup on a "normal" installation, even on SSD.

Perhaps part of the problem, but not all of it. Hauptwerk does not stream samples from disk, it loads them from disk into addressable memory. It would be conceivable to use ROM for this purpose and avoid the necessity of loading the samples from disk, but then you need a full compliment of ROM for each sample set. That's of course do-able, but also expensive, and inflexible, requiring the purchase of new ROMS to accommodate new sample sets. With the major large Hauptwerk sample sets taking 16 to 32+ GB, not practical. No doubt load times from disk could be reduced by taking advantage of Windows embedded, which essentially allows you to include only those pieces of the OS that you need. I know there are vendors looking into doing that and perhaps Viscount already has.

I know that for some the idea of instantaneous boot-up and switching of samples is something they claim to care about. Personally, I don't think it's important. Pipe organs don't start instantaneously. Tonewheel Hammonds don't start instantaneously, nor did vacuum tube based organs.

[rjsilva]

I was thinking earlier and wondering what the reason is for Viscount to make a product such as this. It seems to me the main selling point of software like Hauptwerk and GrandOrgue is that an older organ's sound can be improved for far cheaper than buying a new organ.

So then what's the point of Viscount producing an organ for $12-13k to run software that mainly appeals to people wanting to get better sound for less money? I recognise there are commercial/church installations but would they really choose this relatively budget Viscount console? Wouldn't an older and better built Allen make a better (and much cheaper) candidate? It'd be cheaper and higher quality to put custom stop tabs/knobs on an old Allen to match the sampleset of choice in a commercial/church installation.

Maybe they're hoping to appeal to that market and in the process maybe those customers might consider their other organs which Viscount would undoubtedly consider superior.

[Silken Path]

Good point, rjsilva, yet folks are buying three-manual stacks, MIDI AGO pedal boards, and building custom computers (64 and 128 GB RAM are being discussed on the Hauptwerk forum) to run their VPO, so in many cases it must be less expensive still for them than an old Allen or Rodgers.