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  • Need HELP Identifying this Organ

    So, I'm going to buy this organ... It's going to make good home practice organ for me. All I have is a Spinet Hammond T-582C organ that was been broken for over 6 years now.... I'm tired of playing my keyboard also. Anyway! I am going to purchase this Organ this next week. I need help identifying it please! The rear cover and music rack has been removed... I can't find any other ID badges or stickers anywhere on it... I believe it to be of Baldwin descent... But I am not sure.... any help would greatly be appreciated!! Thanks!!



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    Last edited by ns9987; 08-05-2017, 07:30 PM.

  • #2
    I suspect it would be helpful to have a photo of the rear (since the cover is missing that should be doable) and also shots of the stop rail good enough to read the stop names and labels on the switches. If any of the larger components inside have labels, photos of those would also be useful. The one photo you posted is of just a fairly bare-bones model 2-manual instrument and the case is similar to those built by a number of companies.

    David

    Comment


    • #3
      Hello and Thank you for your Response!! I added more pictures of the organ to my original post, feel free to check them out! Thanks!!

      Comment


      • #4
        You of all people should recognize that one, David :-).

        It's a Schober Recital, a 'kit' organ from the 70s.

        --- Tom
        Rodgers 660 with additional analog rack sets (practice), 36D/C in digital conversion, Yamaha CVP-107

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        • #5
          Hello and Thank you for your response!! Wow! Schober Organ ?? I have never heard of that brand before! I love the craftsmanship of this organ, it's a beauty! Can the modern day organ technicians still fix these if one breaks?

          Comment


          • #6
            Definitely a Schober Recital--with the "Austin Type" tripper combination action and reverbatape. This organ used direct audio keying, and sometimes the keying gets noisy.

            The organ was probably not built with a back, as the back was optional for many of the models.

            Suggestions:

            1. Replace the reverbatape with a digital reverb. This is quite easy to do as the signal levels going to/from the Reverbatape match those of a digital reverb. It's not that Reverbatape was a bad idea, but it's a mechanical contraption and uses tape loops that you really can't get, and digital reverb is extremely good and cheap these days.

            2. Send me a private message if you are interested in converting some or all of the keying to Devtronix frequency divider systems. Check out these pages: http://ke3ij.com/Schober.htm and http://recital.mugwo.com/index.html Or adding a set of oscillators for celeste.

            I have a lot of Devtronix parts that I will be disposing of, and some of these would be useful for the Schober.

            Tell us where you are located--add it to your profile. When members of this group want to get rid of items it's very helpful to know if interested parties are nearby.

            Finally, the tripper combination action and stop keys were made by Klann, Inc. They no longer offer these products for new installations but can sometimes provide spare parts. Google "Klann Organ" to find them--very nice people to work with.

            Comment


            • #7
              It's a Schober Recital Model with the optional Combination Action and the optional Reverbatape® device (controlled by the white knob at the right of the stop rail). Here is a publicity photo of that model:
              [img]http://organ-classifieds.com/images/...-console_2.jpg[/img]

              toodles, I was fairly certain what it was but wasn't sure--the photo was not quite clear enough for me to be certain. I used the web to pull up a few better photos and was able to confirm it was a fully-featured Recital Model.

              I built one in 1964 (it's a kit organ) without all the bells and whistles (I did have the Reverbatape®) and it was a nice little instrument. Mine has been inactive for many years--I began a major modification to it back in the 1980s and never got it finished.

              Have you been to the place and tried this organ out? Your thoughts that it might be a Baldwin are interesting, because some of the circuitry used in it were licensed from Baldwin. It's basically a single-generator frequency divider instrument. There are 3 possible configurations: (1) the original design, using 12 separate tone generator boards, each of which produced all the notes of a given letter value (all the "A" notes on one board, etc.); (2) a later design that had a single tone generator board that used a Top-Octave-Generator IC to produce the entire top octave and then had 12 frequency-divider ICs to produce the lower octaves; (3) modification of the keyswitching system to use electronic switches instead of mechanical switches for the keyed tones--this modification was made by an outside company called Devtronix and some Recital Model owners did transition to that system of keyswitching. There were at least 2 different models of Combination Actions offered for the Recital Model--hopefully the one in this instrument is of the later variety (it was more functional).

              Like all electronic organs of this vintage, the Recital Model sound is greatly improved by the addition of artificial reverberation. The first offering (the Reverbatape®) was a good start, but much better devices are available today to provide that effect with far fewer problems. The Recital Model was also designed to be played through a high-quality Hi-fi system and was offered without a sound system. It would appear that the unit you are getting is equipped with speakers (and, one assumes, amplifiers). Be sure you check on that.

              WE are talking 1960s and 1970s sound here, and electronic organs have come a long way in 50 years. However, as a practice instrument it should be adequate. It does have a full AGO spec pedalboard and a fairly decent stop list (which can be altered).

              I also have a lot of spare boards (with components mounted) that I received from owners gutting out their Schobers to make virtual organs out of them, if any need replacing. There are a few of the Devtronix boards, too. I would think that any qualified electronics technician would be able to make any repairs needed--these organs were designed to be built by untrained homeowners using very simple tools. And the manuals were very good. There used to be a complete set of manuals on the SchoberOrgans Yahoo! Group, but those files appear to be missing now. However, I have digital copies of almost all of them and could provide them if necessary. I also created a nice block diagram of the instrument showing the major signal paths.

              David
              Attached Files
              Last edited by davidecasteel; 08-05-2017, 08:21 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you all for the Responses I really appreciate it alot!

                Toodles - Thank you for your help, and info! I will be sure to put in my address on my profile here soon!

                Mr. David - Thank you so much as well for your help, and info, and I would love to add a digital reverb unit to the organ! It will be installed here in my home this Wednesday Aug. 9th. I'm really excited and thrilled to have an AGO spec organ in my home for practice! Hopefully the organ doesn't have any major issues but I will share any I have with you guys! Thank you all again for your help I greatly appreciate it!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  You must be located very near where the instrument is housed to be able to get more pictures so fast. From the added photos it would appear that you have a first generation Recital Model with the 12 separate tone generator boards. Some people preferred this version because there were 12 separate oscillators (one for each note letter) that were separately tuned, and that did provide a less "electronic" sound. (Of course, it also required 12 tuning operations every so often.) The interior of the instrument appears very clean and well maintained, and that should mean you will have few problems. I also note the presence of the Reverbatape® and you've already been advised to replace that with a new digital reverb unit. I see a single-channel TR-3 amplifier, which tells me that your instrument has been wired to be a single output one--all the sound comes through a single channel. There is a single resistor on the PRR-3 Preamplifier-Vibrato Unit (#38) that determines if the instrument is a single-channel one (with all output coming out of the jack on the Great expression shoe) or a dual-channel one (with separate outputs from the 2 manuals coming out of the jacks on their respective expression pedals); the audio from the Pedals is sent to either or both by switches on the stop rail. So, if you want to convert your organ to 2 channels, it only requires moving one end of one resistor (and, of course, providing another amplifier/speaker setup).

                  Did the previous owner take advantage of the Library of Stops® kit to produce additional tone colors for his organ? They would be little circuit boards about the size of a credit card with 10 metal connector pads on one side and a few components mounted on them. The 32 stops of the Recital Model are controlled by those little boards, which are installed into connectors on the back of the stop rail. Within certain constraints, those 32 stops can be a wide variety of tones, enabling the instrument to be altered tonally to suit a number of genres. (Of course, different voices require different boards.) Some folks even set up a set of stops to make it into a fair Theater Organ (without percussions--although there was a separate optional device to do those, too).

                  Assuming that the basic instrument is functional, I think you will have a good time playing on this organ.

                  David

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                  • #10
                    By the way, the walnut on that console has a beautiful finish.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by toodles View Post
                      By the way, the walnut on that console has a beautiful finish.
                      It's possible it is a custom-built console--Schober did sell plans for it to folks who wanted to build their own.

                      David

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                      • #12
                        Looks to me to be the standard console like those Schober provided as a kit. They had a finishing compound that I suspect was similar to Watco--it can provide a finish similar to that in the picture. The corbel under the keydesk (i.e., "bracket") is recessed, and the Schober catalog photo never showed that as recessed, but some pictures in their newsletters showed this as recessed from the end panels and I think that is how the knock-down console kits were designed.

                        Here's a link to the Schober Orphans page: http://www.users.cloud9.net/~pastark/schober.html

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yesterday, the Files section of the SchoberOrgans Yahoo! Group was missing. I asked about it and I see that the files are back today. This link should bring up a page of links to the Schober documents on their organ kits: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...rOrphans/files.

                          David

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
                            Yesterday, the Files section of the SchoberOrgans Yahoo! Group was missing. I asked about it and I see that the files are back today. This link should bring up a page of links to the Schober documents on their organ kits: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...rOrphans/files.
                            David,

                            Your link requires one to log into their Yahoo account to access the link/files. It's been so long since I've used my Yahoo account--about 10 years now!

                            I remember getting my Schober recording, brochures, and begging my father to let me purchase one (he never did--I got the Lowrey DSO-1 instead). It was the most pipe-like organ I had heard to that point. So instead, I just drooled and dreamed over the brochures I had received.

                            Michael
                            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Michael,

                              I too used to drool over the Schober brochures and listen endlessly to the LP record I got somewhere. Still have it, in fact. Back then it didn't take much to entice us organ lovers. We hadn't heard digital reproductions of genuine pipe waves, and we weren't turned off by the raw on-off pops and ticks of the direct audio keying, since most organs worked that way.

                              A lot of people probably got big thrills from building and customizing and eventually playing these organs. I really wanted one, but it was always beyond my reach. It was a different world back then.
                              John
                              ----------
                              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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