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  • MOS 2 Chime card.....or something like chimes

    Hey,

    I have done a lot of searching on the forum and reading about the tone cards and different models, etc.

    Is there a tone card for a MOS-2 (Allen 225) that will give the closest resemblance to chimes?

    Either an Allen card or a "non Allen made" card?

    I would be interested in paying for such a thing within reason.

    I appreciate you all so much!!

    Thanks,
    GH
    Rodgers W5000 --- home (currently at church)
    Rodgers MX200 module --- home (currently at church)
    Kawai UST7 studio piano --- home

  • #2
    The "Tubular Chimes Octave Sounding" is the closest I've found. I don't know if there is a non-octave sounding version. I just played them down an octave. Regardless, the result is not very realistic sounding, especially if you're trying to use them for melody rather than an accent note, due to the technology.
    -Admin

    Allen 965
    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
    Hauptwerk 4.2

    Comment


    • #3
      The MOS-I users manual references "the tubular chime, chime, and carillon alterable voice cards...", so it appears that they were available. The manual suggests loading into both alterables, using the percussion, setting sustain to long, and voicing to mellow.

      The old analog organ trick for chimes were to use sine waves or flutes at 6-2/5, 4, 2-2/3, and 2 with long sustain. If a 6-2/5 card was made, you could try adding that to appropriate flute pitches with percussion and long sustain.

      One of the Cornet stops might work, too, or Tierce 1-3/5, Sifflote 1, Harmonic 26th, and Flute 29th 1/4 ft. Play in the lowest octaves with percussion, sustain.

      Comment


      • #4
        One cannot make a 6 2/5' card for a MOS instrument, as it is the 5th harmonic of a 32' pitch; for that matter, it can't be made for an ADC instrument, either. MOS organs can only have cards for stops of 8' or its higher harmonics, and ADC organs are limited to 16' and its higher harmonics.

        There was a thread about a month ago that discussed chimes or orchestra bells.

        David

        Comment


        • #5
          Chimes just never were done very well by MOS, and none of the available cards are very good. Seems peculiar, since the old analog Allen organs had great chimes using the trick described above -- wiring together the various flute pitches required and turning on sustain. But, as David reminds us, MOS cannot produce that 6-2/5' tone, which is essential to making a chime note sound like a chime. One of the best things that happened when Allen brought out ADC organs was that we got very nice-sounding chimes, though you had to play them an octave lower than written most of the time.

          These days, excellent sounding chimes are found on even low-cost digital keyboards. You can buy a cheap Casio or Yamaha keyboard for $100 that will have about the same chime as an Allen MDS or Renaissance organ. So the low-rent way to have good chimes is to get a cheap keyboard and connect the audio to your organ amps, mount the keyboard conveniently, and use it for your chimes (and for some nice solo stops as well).

          The first class way to do it is to have MIDI installed and invest in a good sound module that has great chimes. Even the old original Allen MDS expander had lovely chimes, and of course with MIDI you can use any inexpensive keyboard with a MIDI-IN jack as your module.
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
            The first class way to do it is to have MIDI installed and invest in a good sound module that has great chimes. Even the old original Allen MDS expander had lovely chimes, and of course with MIDI you can use any inexpensive keyboard with a MIDI-IN jack as your module.
            Admin has a MOS-2 adapter for sale on *Bay, and I believe in the Classifieds section of the Forum. It is a fairly simple addition to a MOS-2 organ, though I'm not sure it will work with your organ. I think it's only for the 305 or above. The Allen Ensemble II MIDI box has a very nice Chime sound as well as a realistic Carillon.

            I can't remember where I read this, but somewhere I read that Allen made several fractional cards (still available on their website), which were supposed to be added to the MOS Chimes card to make them sound more realistic. I've never tried it, but your mileage may vary. I know my MOS-2 has 4 Alterables on the Swell, so it might be possible to help the Chime sound, but I've been trying to save up for Admin's MIDI card. One of these years.

            Hope this information is useful.

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

            Comment


            • #7
              I think when I did the analysis of tubular bells overtones I found that the "hum tone" should be provided by a 5 1/5' pitch--which isn't a harmonic of any standard pitch.

              David

              Comment


              • #8
                The 2 posts following David's post were moved to the Allen Tone Card thread: https://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4206.

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Admin View Post
                  The "Tubular Chimes Octave Sounding" is the closest I've found. I don't know if there is a non-octave sounding version. I just played them down an octave. Regardless, the result is not very realistic sounding, especially if you're trying to use them for melody rather than an accent note, due to the technology.
                  Any ideas on acquiring a "Tubular Chimes Octave Sounding" card? It is not on the Allen site for purchasing tone cards.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by toodles View Post
                  The MOS-I users manual references "the tubular chime, chime, and carillon alterable voice cards...", so it appears that they were available. The manual suggests loading into both alterables, using the percussion, setting sustain to long, and voicing to mellow.

                  The old analog organ trick for chimes were to use sine waves or flutes at 6-2/5, 4, 2-2/3, and 2 with long sustain. If a 6-2/5 card was made, you could try adding that to appropriate flute pitches with percussion and long sustain.

                  One of the Cornet stops might work, too, or Tierce 1-3/5, Sifflote 1, Harmonic 26th, and Flute 29th 1/4 ft. Play in the lowest octaves with percussion, sustain.
                  Any ideas on where to get "the tubular chime, chime, and carillon alterable voice cards..." for MOS 2. They are not on the Allen site for cards.
                  Rodgers W5000 --- home (currently at church)
                  Rodgers MX200 module --- home (currently at church)
                  Kawai UST7 studio piano --- home

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gebohmusic View Post
                    Any ideas on acquiring a "Tubular Chimes Octave Sounding" card? It is not on the Allen site for purchasing tone cards.
                    Any ideas on where to get "the tubular chime, chime, and carillon alterable voice cards..." for MOS 2. They are not on the Allen site for cards.
                    If it's not on the Allen site, you'll have to keep an eye out on eBay or the like. My understanding is that Allen is no longer replenishing card inventory.
                    Last edited by Admin; 10-09-2017, 08:32 AM.
                    -Admin

                    Allen 965
                    Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                    Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                    Hauptwerk 4.2

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have these tone cards with my Allen 300C. In my humble experience, I've usually combined the tubular chimes with one of the bell cards or with the Chryslogot card - some combination of these, but as mentioned in previous posts, you won't get a really great sound. It's very dated. I'm still holding out for a set of real chimes - Degan or Maas Rowe - some set that's been hanging in a church for years but no one cares about anymore. LOL.
                      Craig

                      Hammond L143 with Leslie 760

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I programmed a chime sound on my Kurzweil K1200 to imitate the way Hammonds did chimes. I used a layer of 4 sine waves. Seems similar to some of the discussion here.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is an explanation of how tubular chimes (bells) function: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...sic/tbell.html. The pitch perceived does not actually sound--our ear/brain provides it by interpretation.

                          Another reference (Wikipedia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubular_bells has this explanation:
                          In tubular bells, modes 4, 5, and 6 appear to determine the strike tone and have frequencies in the ratios 92:112:132, or 81:121:169, "which are close enough to the ratios 2:3:4 for the ear to consider them nearly harmonic and to use them as a basis for establishing a virtual pitch".[3] The perceived "strike pitch" is thus an octave below the fourth mode (i.e., the missing "1" in the above series).
                          David

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sounds like a "resultant" where there are pitches corresponding to the overtone series without the fundamental. The human brain interprets it as though the fundamental is present.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Although many people attribute all the effect of a Resultant to the "missing fundamental" effect, there is also the physical existence of "beat frequency" in which 2 different tones periodically reinforce and cancel each other in the combined sound, and the pitch defined by this amplitude modulation is the same as that of the missing fundamental. I believe both principles contribute to the function of a good Resultant.

                              As I have read, the actual "hum tone" of an orchestral tubular chime/bell occurs at a frequency around 1/4 that of the perceived tone, but it is very soft and not in tune.

                              David

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