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  • Question about a couple of organ stops for my Conn Serenade 621F

    Good afternoon everybody,

    I have a quick question about a couple of organ stops on my Conn Serenade 621F. I have always been curious as to what the primary differences are between the Diapason and Open Diapason stops, both of which are included on this instrument and more. Generally speaking, if I'm not mistaken, they seem to fall in the category of Principal stops considering the fact that they emit a louder and stronger tone when compared to other available stops such as the Concert or Soft Flutes for example.

    If anyone is curious about any additional stops available on my Serenade, please refer to the following post:

    http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...-Serenade-621F

    Thank you!
    Last edited by ConnOrganOwner; 01-28-2018, 05:22 PM. Reason: Included information about my organ's stoplist
    My current organ:
    • Two manual and 25 pedal Conn Serenade 621F

  • #2
    Originally posted by ConnOrganOwner View Post
    I have always been curious as to what the primary differences are between the Diapason and Open Diapason stops, both of which are included on this instrument and more. Generally speaking, if I'm not mistaken, they seem to fall in the category of Principal stops considering the fact that they emit a louder and stronger tone when compared to other available stops such as the Concert or Soft Flutes for example.

    If anyone is curious about any additional stops available on my Serenade, please click on my profile and refer back to a previous post of mine that has my instrument's name on it. Within that post, I have listed a full stoplist along with several pictures of the instrument itself.
    ConnOrganOwner,

    To answer your first question first, the difference is in the voicing and actually the stop family, believe it or not. On the Great, the Open Diapason is generally a large-scaled (bigger diameter) open pipe made either of spotted metal, but also of linen metal. That stop is in the Diapason/Principal family, and is generally the strongest (I hate using the term loudest) rank on the organ, other than solo voices.

    The Diapason on the Swell is probably a form of Stopped Diapason, which is actually in the Flute family. The Stopped Diapason is generally made of wood, as is voiced more like a German Gedeckt or French Bourdon. More information can be found here: http://www.organstops.org/s/StoppedDiapason.html.

    Hope that helps.

    Michael

    P.S. When referring to a thread, you might want to go there and post a link for people to follow. Just a suggestion.
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

    Comment


    • #3
      Principal, Open Diapason, Diapason etc. all fall into the category of foundation stops, usually louder than flutes, stronger with more harmonic development. To my ears, their tonal development is similar to the piano but not "percussed".

      There really isn't a difference between Diapason and Open Diapason stops with those exact wordings; however a "Stopped Diapason" is actually a flute stop. Conn used the different names either because they gave them slightly different voicing or so that when referring to a registration on this instrument you could differentiate the two.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by myorgan View Post
        ConnOrganOwner,

        To answer your first question first, the difference is in the voicing and actually the stop family, believe it or not. On the Great, the Open Diapason is generally a large-scaled (bigger diameter) open pipe made either of spotted metal, but also of linen metal. That stop is in the Diapason/Principal family, and is generally the strongest (I hate using the term loudest) rank on the organ, other than solo voices.

        The Diapason on the Swell is probably a form of Stopped Diapason, which is actually in the Flute family. The Stopped Diapason is generally made of wood, as is voiced more like a German Gedeckt or French Bourdon. More information can be found here: http://www.organstops.org/s/StoppedDiapason.html.

        Hope that helps.

        Michael

        P.S. When referring to a thread, you might want to go there and post a link for people to follow. Just a suggestion.

        Michael,

        Thanks for everything as your information has been most helpful. I have also revised my original post to make it easier for those to refer back.

        Josh
        My current organ:
        • Two manual and 25 pedal Conn Serenade 621F

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by toodles View Post
          Principal, Open Diapason, Diapason etc. all fall into the category of foundation stops, usually louder than flutes, stronger with more harmonic development. To my ears, their tonal development is similar to the piano but not "percussed".

          There really isn't a difference between Diapason and Open Diapason stops with those exact wordings; however a "Stopped Diapason" is actually a flute stop. Conn used the different names either because they gave them slightly different voicing or so that when referring to a registration on this instrument you could differentiate the two.
          Toodles,

          Thanks for the information. At my former church, I once played a 1920s era Austin pipe organ that had a Open Diapason '16 (in the Pedal division) and a Stopped Diapason 8' (in the Swell division). Both were among the organ's most commonly used stops aside from the instrument's strongest pedal stop known as the Resultant 32'. The Sforzando toe stud was perhaps my all time favorite to use on this instrument as well.

          In any case, the two Diapason stops on my Serenade do sound kind of similar, but it can be sometimes hard to tell if they both carry the same sound or not. So it seems highly possibly that Conn could have potentially gave them different names to distinguish the two.
          My current organ:
          • Two manual and 25 pedal Conn Serenade 621F

          Comment


          • #6
            Although certainly not a uniform practice, I believe that the different terms used to refer to foundation stops often reflect a national flavor: "Diapason" is often applied to English organs and is typically a fuller, rounder tone; "Principal" ("Prinzipal") is German, and has a thinner characteristic; and "Montre" is French and is quite pronounced.

            Again, there is no standard about this.

            David

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
              Although certainly not a uniform practice, I believe that the different terms used to refer to foundation stops often reflect a national flavor: "Diapason" is often applied to English organs and is typically a fuller, rounder tone; "Principal" ("Prinzipal") is German, and has a thinner characteristic; and "Montre" is French and is quite pronounced.

              Again, there is no standard about this.
              David,

              Great points, David.

              I know sometimes it feels like we're equivocating when answering very specific questions like this, but other than general guidelines based on nationality like you listed above, organ stops can appear almost anywhere on an organ and may not necessarily follow a certain convention of thought. That said, however, in the late 20thc. with the Baroque revival, practices on American organs became more unified. In the 21stc. the practice on digital instruments is to provide complete sample sets from as many as four or more nationalities (i.e. American Classic, French Romantic, Baroque, etc.). Pipe organs, by their very nature, aren't as adaptable to changing national influences and tastes.

              I surmised (not knowing Conn's instruments well) they would follow conventions, and while not using the term "Stopped," that would be the designation when found on the Swell.

              Great conversation starter, ConnOrganOwner.

              Michael
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • #8
                Good information for us new tooters, too, kind sirs.

                Which reminds me...

                Did you hear the hear the one about Idaho and Russet Potato? They did not want their debutante daughter going out with Howard Cossel because he was just a...

                common tater.
                -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic -- 1899 Kimball, Rodgers W5000C, Conn 643, Hammond M3, L-102 - “If music be the food of love, play on" Shakespeare, Twelfth Night

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Silken Path View Post
                  Did you hear the hear the one about Idaho and Russet Potato? They did not want their debutante daughter going out with Howard Cossel because he was just a...

                  common tater.
                  Two thirds of a pun--PU!

                  At first when I read your post, I thought it could be placed in the Organ Jokes thread, but then I realized it was about potatoes. As the son of a potato farmer, I've planted, rogued, weeded, and harvested many russet potatoes in my time. Out of pride, we never raised them other p'dadas.;-)

                  Back on topic, I wonder if everyone realizes that with organ building traditions, how many different epochs are represented over the history of the organ. In America alone, there are at least 3 styles for only the classical organ. Then there's the home organ market. While Conn considers their upper lines like Artiste & Serenade to be "church organs" (perhaps rightly so), as a whole, Conn organs were considered home organs. Even so, I've seen my fair share of Conn organs in church settings, as I have organs like my Lowrey Heritage Deluxe DSO-1, and the regular DSO.

                  Moral of the story--I guess any organ can be a "church" organ or "home" organ, depending on where it's placed. However, when it comes to design, one expects different features on a "church" organ (i.e. more than 1 octave of pedals and 2 or more 61-note keyboards). Then, there are theatre organs placed in churches like the Conn 600 series, Thomas, and others I've seen.

                  Come to think of it, I might start a thread on the topic and see what we get in return?

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment

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