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  • Speaker Placement New (Unusual) Location

    Spring Fever is here so time to rearrange the house. I have a new project underway to relocate my speakers from the dining room to a loft area. The music room/foyer/library is 10 x 20 feet with loft area centered directly above which is 8 X 8 X 8. The loft is open to the room below except for the grid that will support the speakers. The four speakers are HC-12s. There are several possibilities for placement and I would love to hear about your experience or opinions.

    Some options are:
    1. Four speakers upright in a row against one wall and facing opposite wall.
    2. Four speakers in a row facing ceiling.
    3. One speaker in each corner facing opposite wall or arranged facing same clockwise
    or counter clockwise direction.
    4. One speakers in each corner facing center of the room. (Cattycornered)
    5. Two speakers on two adjacent walls.

    Other possibilities?

    Looking forward to your input.

    Sam
    Sam

    Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
    Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

  • #2
    What emanates from each of the 4 speakers? One suspects that they don't carry the same information. If they are in pairs (just 2 channels of sound) I'd put one of each pair in each back corner aimed across the space to the opposite wall of the main space. If each one has a different signal I think I'd just line them up against the back wall.

    David

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    • #3
      Four channels.
      Sam

      Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
      Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

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      • #4
        There is no real way to know so I suggest experimentation.

        If the loft is centered along the narrow side of the listening room direct radiation might work--i.e., speaking directly into the area. If the loft is along the wide side of the listening room, it will probably help to reflect the sound onto the ceiling or back into the loft for some mixing and reflection prior to the listener.

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        • #5
          Pictures? Are the four channels different organ divisions or are they different tone groupings? I would arrange things very differently if one speaker carried the entire Great Division or all the Flute Tone.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Leisesturm View Post
            Pictures? Are the four channels different organ divisions or are they different tone groupings? I would arrange things very differently if one speaker carried the entire Great Division or all the Flute Tone.
            The organ is two manual Allen ADC 4000, 3 divisions.
            Sam

            Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
            Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

            Comment


            • #7
              An Allen 4000 has four discrete channels. Two carry the swell stops and the alterables, the other two carry the great and pedal stops. The stops of each division are neatly divided into the two channels. Even the pedals, where some 16' stops are in one channel and others are in the other channel. Very nice arrangement, optimizes the use of four channels.

              I'd vote for aiming the speakers at the ceiling, as long as you have a hard reflective surface up there. In my experience with home organ speakers, it never sounds very good when the speakers aim too directly at your ears. My last two or three home organs have been set up with most of the speakers laying flat on their backs and aimed upward at the ceiling. The exception is for bass drivers, which actually do their best job when on the floor. But you don't have that option with this organ unless you totally customize the audio and abandon the use of the original Allen HC cabinets.

              So I'd try it out with speakers pointing up at the ceiling and see what happens. It doesn't really matter how they are arranged up there, just all four lying flat on their backs in a single cluster should be fine.
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

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              • #8
                Will give it a try. If speakers are placed on their backs the distance to the ceiling will be about 6 1/2 feet and the bounce back to the floor is about 18 feet. The ceiling is coffered so don't know what effect that might have. Looking forward to having the sound come from above as is usually the case with a pipe organ. Hope that there's significant improvement because there's significant heavy lifting and wiring nightmares involved.

                Thanks John
                Sam

                Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
                Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

                Comment


                • #9
                  All our organ improvements involve heavy lifting and wiring nightmares! This ought to be well worth the effort though.

                  Sounds like you have plenty of room up there for the sound to develop. The coffered ceiling shouldn't cause any problems, as long as the surfaces are smooth.
                  John
                  ----------
                  *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                  • #10
                    When the Rodgers organ was installed in the church I was playing for, the dealer made a point of aiming all of the speakers somewhat upwards, but not directly at any surface. He wanted lots of indirect reflections before the sound reached a listener. Also, putting speakers near a wall or corner can really change the bass response.

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                    • #11
                      With enough reverb the speakers would not need to be moved up to the loft. Reverb is the cheapest and most effective thing a person can do for a home installation. Ceilings and walls in homes even if reflective are often not 'hard' enough... rigid enough to bounce sound back into the room efficiently. The high's don't suffer that much but the meat of the mid-range is absorbed by the literal flexing of the walls and ceiling (at a molecular level) and much sound is lost. Just as a guess I am thinking it will need 4x the amplifier or more (a lot more) to get the same level of sound as before with the speakers aimed at the ceiling lying on their backs in the loft.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leisesturm View Post
                        With enough reverb the speakers would not need to be moved up to the loft. Reverb is the cheapest and most effective thing a person can do for a home installation. Ceilings and walls in homes even if reflective are often not 'hard' enough... rigid enough to bounce sound back into the room efficiently. The high's don't suffer that much but the meat of the mid-range is absorbed by the literal flexing of the walls and ceiling (at a molecular level) and much sound is lost. Just as a guess I am thinking it will need 4x the amplifier or more (a lot more) to get the same level of sound as before with the speakers aimed at the ceiling lying on their backs in the loft.

                        In this case placement of the speakers in the loft puts them in the same room with the console rather than in adjacent room where the sound travels back to the console thru a double doorway. And, I like the sound from above rather than from the side or sitting on the floor. There are fewer obstacles (like furniture) above and the sound will have more opportunity to bounce, and, I think placing them above will result in improved ambience. I have reverb and will still use it but sparingly. My amps are set at 6 or 7 so there's power to spare if needed.

                        Thanks for you comments.
                        Sam

                        Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
                        Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The deed is done. The wiring required crawling in the attic and under the house. That was the worst part of the job. I'm certain that I will again be walking normally any day now. I built a rig for the lift that made the lift easy. The build was the hard part. I've included a photo below. It was constructed of 2 x 4s, some scrap strand board, a come along, and held together with 3 inch deck screws.

                          I tried the speakers toward the ceiling option and the four in a row and found that four in a row was best. With speakers pointed toward the ceiling the pedal was greatly diminished as were the high
                          frequencies. The sound is great and glad to have the speakers up and out of the dining room. The area where they sit is the inside of a cupola, so, now I'm calling it my organ chamber.
                          Attached Files
                          Sam

                          Allen ADC5400, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
                          Past---Allen ADC4000, Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

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                          • #14
                            That's a very interesting room up there, I've not seen anything like it.
                            Allen 530A

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                            • #15
                              Sam,

                              NOW, I know where my Conn Speaker Pipes went!;-) Do you have a manual playing through them, are they Antiphonal, or just ornamental?

                              It sounds like the cupola will allow the sound to mix fully before coming to the ear. By any chance have you considered placing the speakers at an angle in the cupola? I'm sure you've probably tried it, but it may allow longer distances for the wavelengths to form fully before being blended with other output.

                              You've showed a great idea with how you got the speakers up the ceiling ladder. It gives me ideas for the garage I'm going to be building.

                              Thanks for sharing the photos.

                              Michael
                              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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