Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

My New (to me) Allen ADC-8000DKC

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • My New (to me) Allen ADC-8000DKC

    Well, I might as well make it official. In a few weeks, I'll be receiving an Allen ADC-8000DKC--with my long-awaited and long coveted 32' Pedal Reed!:-> The questions I've been asking the last week are generally for the benefit of the shipper. There is one question I need to ask, because the photos don't appear to coincide with the recent information I received on the ADC-8000DKC materials from a service manual.

    It appears Allen customized this organ for the initial purchaser, but only modified the Choir (see substitute stops pictured below--Bold are the new stops). Rather than the traditional Baroque-leaning Choir stops specified on the materials I received, it looks like the original purchaser wanted a more 1920s sound, or theatre sound. If I don't use the Vibrato, I'm wondering if the stops will blend well with the remainder of the organ, or if it will be too heavy sounding. Of course, I know I can probably voice most of the issues out of it, but don't want to alter it too much.

    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Michael
    Attached Files
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

  • #2
    Most of the early ADC stops aren't articulate anyway, so I'm really not sure how much difference it would make with the romantic replacements that you couldn't thin out with the tone controls.

    However- I would really miss the original articulate Choir 8-4-2 flutes. I played an ADC-8000 every week for several years, and the Choir flute chorus was a nice foil to the Swell, both being some of the nicest sounding stops on the organ, and having (at least the 8 and 4) built-in articulation. You won't miss the Erzahler. You might miss the Viole Celeste, which again, with its Viole counterpart, was a nice, keener contrast to the Swell strings. I never cared much for the Choir chorus reeds on the ADC-8000 so probably not much lost there, and in early ADC, the Clarinet and Krummhorn are probably an even exchange.

    Comment


    • #3
      Michael,

      I thought you said the MRS was not allowing you acquiring any more organs. Or was it only another organ if you got rid of one.

      The ADC, is quite large isn't it. What are your plans for it?

      AV

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by arie v View Post
        I thought you said the MRS was not allowing you acquiring any more organs. Or was it only another organ if you got rid of one.

        The ADC, is quite large isn't it. What are your plans for it?
        Arie,

        The answer to your question is, "Yes." She'll find out in a few weeks,:embarrassed: and we'll see which one goes. Time will tell.

        Presently, my plans are to use it for the next Symphony concert. Because the new garage will be large enough for all the organs, I'm toying with some ideas around the space. Perhaps a rehearsal space for small ensembles, or even for small recitals for our students. Time will tell.

        Thanks for asking.

        Michael
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

        Comment


        • #5
          You old scoundrel! ;-)

          Seriously, I am so proud for you, my friend! After all these years of longing for that 32' pedal reed. I do hope it will be everything you want it to be. If anyone deserves that organ, it's you.

          I guess one might wring his hands over the obvious attempt at conversion of what must have been a really lovely and lively Baroque-ish choir division into what they may have thought would be a big heavy thick quasi-romantic division. ---Must have been in a Baptist church ;-) But, as has been said, there may not be much about it that you can't fix fairly well with the voicing controls.

          Allen likes to accommodate their customers, but I don't think they would've built an organ that sounded really terrible, or created a division that wasn't going to work with the rest of the organ. Surely the replacement stops will be very nice examples of their type, even if you might have preferred the crisp articulate original voices. They might turn out to be quite interesting with a bit of treble boost and some cut to the bass, especially on the tibias.

          I've only played a couple of 8000's in my career, and both of them were absolutely stunning. As close to getting that coveted "custom" organ sound as you can come in a stock model. You already know that some of the stops are created on special TG boards that are devoted to only one or two stops, the precursor to the vaunted TT-4 board. Those stops are going to really shine.

          This is Allen done right, and you are going to be thrilled. Don't be afraid to get aggressive on the voicing of those choir stops. You can't hurt anything by making major changes to the spectral balance, and you should trust your ears as you try to reform the tibias into more classic sounding flutes.
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

          Comment


          • #6
            Congrats Michael! Does this mean another sub-woofer project is just around the coroner?;-)

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              @Hamman,

              I'm almost at the point, I hope to create two Infinite Baffle spaces in my garage with the 16'x5'x4.5' on either side of the attic space. It is triangular with insulation on the hypotenuse, and one leg is the floor, while the other leg is the side of the attic room with studs exposed. I'll post more about that on my Garage thread: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...t-up-questions

              Michael
              Last edited by myorgan; 09-01-2024, 03:20 PM.

          • #7
            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
            You old scoundrel! ;-)
            Pot . . . kettle!;-)

            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
            Seriously, I am so proud for you, my friend! After all these years of longing for that 32' pedal reed. I do hope it will be everything you want it to be. If anyone deserves that organ, it's you.
            Thank you, John. It has been over 11 years now. Granted, I had to pay a bit more than I usually do for this one, but the stars aligned. That also means (according to my wife) I need to sell another organ to make room for it--even with the new garage. I'd actually prefer sending the Symphony's organ away, but it's theirs, and we're housing it for them. The 505B is at one church, and the ADC-4300 is at another church, so I'm not sure if she'll tolerate the addition. We'll see.

            Originally posted by Hamman View Post
            Congrats Michael! Does this mean another sub-woofer project is just around the coroner?;-)
            Hamman,

            I don't know if the coroner is around the corner or not--time will tell. However, I do now have 3 B-40 speakers and a B-20. The B-20 is on the ADC-4300DKC and sounds GREAT! The old B-40 is used with the ADC-5400 with mixed results, and the other two B-40 speakers will be dedicated to the ADC-8000DKC. I can't wait to hear it live, rather than through crappy phone video. I'll make recordings as I have time--yeah, right!

            Thanks, all for the well-wishes.

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

            Comment


            • #8
              I played an ADC 8000 DK for a number of years in a huge Catholic parish here. The sound was absolutely stunning. We had two complete sets of speakers, one set up high in the chancel, and the other set above and to the rear of the choir. We had excellent acoustics as an acoustical engineer was involved from the very start in the buildings construction plans and eventual building and finishing of the interior.

              At one point in time I had Walt Strony come and revoice the entire organ ... what a huge difference that made, too.

              Comment


              • #9
                Congrats Michael, You deserve an organ like that one ! I don't know about that whole " get rid of one to get another one " deal. You certainly cannot get rid of one till you have the 8000 for some time, to check it out and so on. So, if that checking out process takes some time...perhaps the deal gets forgotten ?

                And of course, photos when you get it, please.
                Regards, Larry

                At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Originally posted by Piperdane View Post
                  At one point in time I had Walt Strony come and revoice the entire organ ... what a huge difference that made, too.
                  I'm no Walt Strony, but I'll do my best!:-B

                  Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
                  So, if that checking out process takes some time...perhaps the deal gets forgotten ?
                  Larry, thanks for the idea. I'll be sure to blame you for the "inventive thinking!";-)

                  Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
                  And of course, photos when you get it, please.
                  Absolutely! The first thing I learned to do (from John & others) when I get a new organ is to take plenty of photos. It establishes condition, original state, and makes it so much easier to figure out what's in the organ, how to wire it, and other essential information I can view on a computer vs. crouched behind a console. My crouching days are over.

                  In fact, I bought a neat little tool cabinet/seat on wheels (from *arbor *reight) I plan to use with the organs. It has a couple of drawers under the padded seat, fold-down shelves on either side to hold screws & things, as well as a few screwdriver holders on the non-drawer side. I'll include that in the photos.

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    I apologize–I didn't realize it's been nearly 5 years since I updated this thread. I'm finally getting it installed in my garage, and posted my first question here about connecting the amp rack: https://organforum.com/forums/social...-rack-to-organ.

                    I also realize I never posted photos of the organ, as promised. I'll do that later today. I apologize for the omissions, and will be more active in this thread soon.

                    Meanwhile, some photos of the organ in my garage can be found here: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...t-up-questions.

                    Michael
                    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Here are some photos of the organ I took just after acquiring it. It's not the standard stoplist for an ADC-8000. In some ways, I wish it was, but in other ways, maybe the theatre stops on the Choir won't be that bad after all! The only problem is that the two TREM-III units are on the Swell. It looks like someone removed the TREM-III units for the Great and Choir (most importantly).
                      1. Photo taken by someone else while in storage (where I picked it up). I believe the white speakers behind the organ went with it, but the dealer wanted to keep them for another project (utility brown speakers painted white).
                      2. Pedal/Swell Stop Jamb on left.
                      3. Coupler Rail with the Antiphonal Controls on the right.
                      4. Great/Choir Stop Jamb on right. Note the theatre voices in the Choir division. From what I heard, though, they sound like they could pass for Classical voices when Vibrato isn't used.
                      5. Expression Pedals. Note that Great and Pedal are on the same expression. On this organ (unlike other ADC organs later), there is no option for the Great and Pedal to be unexpressed. However, there is an option for All Swells (aka expression) to the Swell expression pedal.
                      More photos to come.

                      Michael
                      Click image for larger version

Name:	E86B80DE-B8A7-441D-AFD9-393E33340639.jpg
Views:	237
Size:	687.6 KB
ID:	850114Click image for larger version

Name:	R_IMG_1366.jpg
Views:	229
Size:	629.3 KB
ID:	850115Click image for larger version

Name:	R_IMG_1367.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	546.7 KB
ID:	850116Click image for larger version

Name:	R_IMG_1371.jpg
Views:	229
Size:	690.3 KB
ID:	850117Click image for larger version

Name:	R_IMG_1373.jpg
Views:	228
Size:	667.7 KB
ID:	850118 ​​​​​​​
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • WeedMIC
                        WeedMIC commented
                        Editing a comment
                        what a beauty :o

                    • #13
                      The next photos are more on the business-end of the organ.
                      1. Toe Studs on the Left of the Expression Pedals.
                      2. Toe Studs on the Right of the Expression Pedals.
                      3. Somehow, the music rack was cracked during the move, so I placed the old music rack on top of the piece of plexiglass so I could use it as a template for the screw holes.
                      4. Behind the Great and Choir, there are places for TREM-III units, but it looks like they may have been harvested for use somewhere else. Shame--especially since the Choir has the theatre stops on it.
                      5. There ARE TREM-III units behind the Swell, though, which also seems odd to me. Perhaps someone didn't know they were there?
                      Michael
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_1372.jpg Views:	0 Size:	778.5 KB ID:	850120Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_1374.jpg Views:	0 Size:	705.3 KB ID:	850121Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5306.jpg Views:	0 Size:	450.7 KB ID:	850122Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5203.jpg Views:	0 Size:	478.2 KB ID:	850123Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5207.jpg Views:	0 Size:	527.4 KB ID:	850124
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • michaelhoddy
                        michaelhoddy commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I believe the lack of reversibles for the 32's has to do with the fact that your 8000 has the DM-series capture and multiplexer. 8000's, I think depending on vintage and perhaps user options, had either the original ADC DM-series system with dual capture memories or the later USCM/USCP system with quad capture memories. My ADC-8000 (at my church) has the USCM and does indeed have toe stud and piston reversibles for the 32's.

                        It does not have the snazzy romantic-style Choir like yours.

                      • WeedMIC
                        WeedMIC commented
                        Editing a comment
                        why would anyone staple those sheet metal plates?

                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Originally posted by WeedMIC View Post
                        why would anyone staple those sheet metal plates?
                        My guess is they were stapled to hold them to the side of the organ. Isn't that what staples do?

                        Michael

                    • #14
                      Here are more photos of the business end.
                      1. The first photo is of the A-Cage on the left as you look in the back of the organ. Don't the RCA connections look suspect to you?
                      2. This photo is of the B-Cage on the right, as you look in the back of the organ. Ditto the question above.
                      3. There are 3 Bass Lift connections on two separate boards inside the back of the organ--I presume for the 32' stops (because there is no Sub-Bass Crossover inside the organ).
                      4. The back of the organ looks a bit empty when compared with my other ADC organs that have the amplifiers inside. However, the drawknobs and extra solid wood for the larger console certainly makes up for that "empty" look! To the right of the Capture Power Supply, there are 2 silver "boxes" on the floor of the organ. When the cover is removed, these are where the signals from each channel of the organ are connected to terminal strips, and distributed to the Amplifier Rack from each of the Cages (A & B). A piece of electrical tape isolates the top of the connections from the metal cover. Mute Relays for the channels can be seen, almost hidden by the metal covers--better seen in the next photo.
                      5. Terminal Strip boxes with covers removed, where the coax cables are connected to the Amplifier Rack. More in this thread on the topic: https://organforum.com/forums/social...096#post850096
                      The organ also has a DM-3 board, but I plan to replace that with a DM-4 board as soon as I've verified everything is working properly.

                      Michael
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5205.jpg Views:	26 Size:	518.8 KB ID:	850130Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5206.jpg Views:	26 Size:	520.1 KB ID:	850131Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5213.jpg Views:	26 Size:	449.7 KB ID:	850132Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5212.jpg Views:	26 Size:	512.0 KB ID:	850133Click image for larger version  Name:	R_IMG_5811.jpg Views:	26 Size:	427.0 KB ID:	850134
                      Last edited by myorgan; 09-02-2024, 04:32 AM. Reason: Fix grammar.
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • WeedMIC
                        WeedMIC commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I absolutely love the cable management. What an artist.

                        Is there an advantage to the (almost brading) of the electrical cables? I know there is something in twisted pair computer cabling. Does it lower hum?

                      • Andrew_B
                        Andrew_B commented
                        Editing a comment
                        That's a very strange audio configuration. Notably, it's the A cage where they've merged everything together. Ch7 is left alone, but they've combined 1&2; 3&4; 5&6. Those are the bulk of the organ.

                        Also strange is that, on the B cage, they've *split* channels 2 and 4 into two outputs each. Where do the extra outputs go??

                        In any case, I would definitely try to put this organ back to its original audio configuration. Right now you've got the Swell, Great, and Pedal divisions mostly coming out of a single audio channel each.

                    • #15
                      Forgive me if I leave your name off the list, but I have a specific question about amplifier application on this organ. jbird604, Andrew_B, you795a, tucsondave, and Larrytow, my question is for y'all's input because you have been personally involved with ADC organs.

                      Originally, this organ had 13 channels, divided between two amplifier racks of 7 and 6 channels respectively--all with S-100 amplifiers (presumably because of the size of the space). It was subsequently reduced to 9 channels with S-100 amplifiers by someone, between the original install and when I received it. I understand the original specification sometimes used a mix of S-100 and D-40 amplifiers for some channels (I have some D-40 amplifiers available too).

                      Assuming I will/might use this organ at some point for the Symphony, I'm thinking of returning the organ to its original 13 channels. The space seats approximately 1,400-1,600 people, and is presumably a good acoustic space. Personally, I don't agree because when it is full, the sound stops completely rather than reverberating (designed for speech?).

                      I have a smaller, 3-shelf Allen amplifier rack with S-100 amplifiers on it. I have enough 2-, 3-, and 4-channel ADC amplifiers to return the organ to its original 13 channels, and they would ALL fit in the smaller rack. For portability's sake, will that be a viable option for this organ, or should I stick with the original rack, and add the 3-shelf rack with ALL S-100 amplifiers. I also have enough S-100 amplifiers to fill out all 13 channels.

                      Is there any trade-off in volume/power/amplitude between the two configurations, or does one trump (no political pun intended) the other? I do know 32' pedal channels should be on the 2-channel ADC amplifier, should I go that route. Will there be any sound level differences between the configurations (all ADC, all S-100, or mix of S-100/D-40)?

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Originally posted by michaelhoddy View Post
                        You are an ambitious gentleman to drag this monster, one amp rack or two, out to do anything portable with!
                        Well, it is on a rolling platform, and there are 4+ stage crew in their teens and twenties!😜 The amp rack and speakers are also on rolling platforms.

                        Thank you for the link. I suspect the Crown amplifiers have their own mute delay and auto-on functions built in? That's something I need to consider for the future. They could even be inside the console and eliminate the amp rack, but I'm not sure how much ventilation they need.

                        Michael

                      • Andrew_B
                        Andrew_B commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You'll probably be okay on the mute function, since the muting relays for the organ audio are already in the console, and the AC is already switched on the rack. That noted, you might want to carry those AC remote boxes over to any new equipment rack, to keep the power switched from the console.

                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thank you, Andrew! The 3-shelf rack already has the same Remote AC box on it, so I would expect it to connect and work the same way.

                        Michael

                    Hello!

                    Collapse

                    Looks like you’re enjoying the discussion, but you haven’t signed up for an account yet.

                    Tired of scrolling through the same posts? When you create an account you’ll always come back to where you left off. With an account you can also post messages, be notified of new replies, join groups, send private messages to other members, and use likes to thank others. We can all work together to make this community great. ♥️

                    Sign Up

                    Working...
                    X