Is This a Rodgers 755 ? and...

[Larrytow]

Hi all,

Is this a Rodgers 755 Concord ? It is in a church that I may land up playing for from time to time, and I'm not all that familiar with Rodgers instruments. It looks to have a pretty complete 2 manual spec, so if it is in decent shape I'm sure it would be a refreshing change to play, compared to some of the junk in other churches around here. I have not been there to test drive / check out the organ yet, so I am asking the collective wisdom of you all about it.

I have downloaded the manual, and reading though it there appear to be several hidden ( sorta anyhow, gotta actually read the manual to know about them ) features built in. Alternate mixtures, various chiff levels, and so on. Some things are named a bit different than Allen does, but there is a Swell to Great melody coupler that they call the Solo coupler.

I seem to recall that these are the last of the Rodgers analog organs before they went digital. Is 1988 or so the era of this one ? That should be a fairly nice sounding organ then.

Since this probably dates from the mid / late 80s, should I be concerned about the state of the speakers ? Foam surrounds rotted out ?

It has the MIDI tabs, but the manual says it is an option. If it has that option, would the MIDI connections be inside the console, or under the keydesk, or ? If it does not have that option, are the parts still available ( probably not from Rodgers anymore, but used or aftermarket ) ?

The Positiv tabs are for the pipe option, correct ? Not a floating electronic division ? This one does not have pipes.

Does the capture memory have batteries that I should check / replace ?

What types of issues do these generally have ? I'd like to know, so know what to specifically look at when I go to test drive / check it out sometime this next week. They have not had it played regularly for a couple of years now, so I figure some dirty contacts may be one thing.

Thanks in advance for any opinions, advice, etc.

[Larrytow]

More Photos - sorry about the quality.

[Larrytow]

And a couple more photos.

[toodles]

Yes, this is a Rodgers Concord 755 organ. It is the same as the Concord 760, but uses the LED tabs instead of lighted drawknobs, and so is in a smaller console. It dates from the late 1980's, around 1988 or 1989 is when it was introduced.

It is a very nice, late analog model with good sound and a lot of nifty features. You are correct that the Positiv stops only play if pipes are attached.

Alternate Mixtures
Alternate mixtures were included, and it was, in my opinion, a nice idea. But they are not hidden--there is a lighted piston under each manual to access the alternate mixture--to use them, turn on the mixture stop tab in the division and select the lighted piston. The alternate mixture is a higher pitched mixture, more useful for contrapuntal music than the standard mixture, which is better for full organ type registrations. They should be able to be set on a combination piston. The alternate mixtures are also nice with, say, an 8 ft. flute, as flutes at 8 & 2, 8 & 1, or 8 & 2-2/3 ft would be.

Hidden Feature, Chiif and Stop Levels
Alternate stop levels and chiff levels are more hidden. While the organ is on, you press and hold the set piston, and turn the key as if to turn the organ on, then release both. Pressing one of the pistons allows you to set some stops to a loud or soft level, and pressing a different piston sets the chiff levels for the swell flute, swell principal, great flute, and great principal. This is done octave by octave.See the attachment for how to do this. There is a switch inside the organ that has to be turned on to access these settings, but it was probably left on. If not, I can provide instructions as to how to access it.

Solo and Continuo Functions
You can also set the highest note for the Continuo function (bass coupler) and the lowest note for the Solo coupler (melody coupler). While pressing the set piston, press the Continuo or Solo piston, and that piston will start flashing. Then press the note on the great which you want for the highest (for the Coninuo) or lowest (for the Solo). Piston will stop flashing to indicate it was set.

MIDI
As for MIDI, the connection panel will be underneath the keydesk, on the right side (treble). If MIDI is installed, good. If not, you'll need to get inside the organ to check a few things before I can suggest what might be involved in finding parts and installing them.

Batteries
The batteries maintain the combination action settings as well as the chiff and stop levels. Different versions of the CPU (microprocessor) board use different batteries. The earlier version uses sealed Lead-Acid batteries, which are on a trickle charger and not installed on the circuit board. If the organ has been plugged in all the time, they are probably still good. The later version uses a Lithium battery, CR17335SE which is installed on the CPU, and may need to be replaced.

Interestingly, this and the model 760 had entirely independent 4 ft. principals for the swell and great, so you can establish the 8 ft to 4 ft balance completely independently of other stops--a rather nice feature. I think these were the only smaller organs to do this and perhaps the only ones.

[Larrytow]

Thank you toodles ! You are a wealth of information. I'll probably go over there on Wed or Fri of this week to give it a test drive. I'll likely take the back off and look at everything inside, as well as take photos.

I hope it does have MIDI installed already, as I would guess that Rodgers ( with the buy-out and all ) will not have the parts to do it. Not that it is actually needed for augmenting the pretty complete spec this one has, but I like playing With organs as much as just playing them.

The speakers are way up high in the back there, so foam rot is a concern I'm thinking about, because I'm sure it gets hot in that location. But, I don't know if Rodgers used foam suspension speakers or not.

It looks like a really nice organ to get involved with.

[toodles]

If you open the back, and MIDI was installed at the factory, there will probably be a very large "Factory Installed MIDI" stamped on the metal panel that has the CPU and multifunction board underneath.

Send me PM with your email address, and I will email you the technical manual. In it there are instructions on how to set the internal switch to allow the setup functions.

Open up the metal panel that is over the microprocessor, and check which batteries are installed. That's the easy way to tell if it is the early or later version of the CPU. They are on the lower right hand area behind that metal panel. Also, get the firmware EPROM number. It will be a printed label over one of the EPROMs in one of the sockets--not a standard IC manufacturer label.

The MIDI adapter will be an add on card underneath the metal cover. There are 2 or 3 circuit boards under there: the multifunction board (the one farthest away from the back of the organ), the CPU which is a plug in circuit board smaller than the MFB (multi-function board), and (we hope) a MIDI adapter, about 4 by 6 inches.

Various parts may be available from MCN Systems http://www.mcnsystems.com/ ; Matt is good at having obsolete parts, though he does not give them away, at least he has a large inventory. The difficulty is that he doesn't normally have the firmware unless he happens to have a CPU with the firmware installed.

[jbird604]

Nice looking organ! We service several of the end-of-era Rodgers organs like that in churches here, and generally they sound much better than they should. Rodgers had finally gotten all the parameters right for making good reed tones, just-right attack and decay, broad sound without being brash and honky. Still has the various drawbacks associated with unit organ design, of course, but they are quite pleasant to play and hear.

Foam rot may very well be a problem, if they haven't already addressed that. The subwoofer would have had two 15" foam woofers in a very large box (model P-32), and they will probably rattle and buzz like crazy if they haven't been replaced. The rest of the speakers might be fine though, if they used the standard complement of Rodgers cabinets with the multiple 6x9 drivers and piezo tweeter horns. Some dealers were using Walker speakers by that time, and they usually had some foam 12" woofers in them. But cross your fingers and hope that they didn't.

It may need tuning, which isn't too hard if you have a helper. One main rank of oscillators that cover the 32' stop up through the highest 2' pitch, plus a celeste rank. And unless the voicing was really done right, you may find you can improve the stop to stop balances with a little tweaking of the various pots on the output board and in other places.

The service manual should give you some guidance on voicing and leveling, though it is a bit obscure in some ways and there sometimes seem to be multiple ways to do the same thing to a voice -- a level pot on the input, another one on the output, and various loud/soft and "bypass" pots that all affect the same stop. But if you study it intensely you can probably see the logic behind most of it. Sometimes I find it useful to merely return every single pot on every board to factory-marked position and start over, especially if a rogue "expert voicer" has gotten into it and done something quirky.

You ought to really enjoy this one. It is at least a serious church organ. Very well equipped and a truly complete stop list.

[myorgan]

Larry,

It looks like it'll be a neat instrument to play! I like those style stop tabs MUCH better than Allen's plain old things--they just look classy!

The only thing I have to add is that even though you have stop tabs for Harp, Carillon, & Harpsichord, they were all options and not necessarily installed. I do have a question about something I saw in the photos. Does the organ actually have pipes installed? That would be nice!

Congratulations on getting the chance to play it!

Michael

[quantum]

This is a nice organ!

A word of caution, if you are going to be playing around with the hidden features, be aware that some combinations reset things to factory default. For example this sequence resets the Tutti default program, Orchestral Crescendo, and Combination Action selections to factory default: Set + Power counter clockwise, Set + Divisional 5. So if you don't want to erase all the organist's personally set combinations, you may want to avoid that particular sequence of button presses.

I found this out by accident on my 760. However, because it is a personal practice instrument, no harm done. If there were multiple organists sharing the instrument, that's a different story.

Best thing is to obtain the service manual, the details are in there.

[toodles]

FWIW, the Harp, Carillon, and Harpsichord should be installed on this organ, as they were standard for the model. Some of the smaller organs of this series made them optional.

Most of the Rodgers cabinets did not use foam surround, though the P32 pedal cabinet might have. My P32 has rubber surrounds. Walker cabinets were commonly used, too, and some of those have foam surrounds.

[Larrytow]

Thank you all for the wealth of advice shared already. Thanks to a kind member here I now have all of the service literature for this organ. This forum is the best !

quantum, yes I will keep that in mind when I get to actually playing around with stuff on it. There has been no regular organist there for a few years now, so if I land up playing this one regularly it will be pretty much "my" organ to set up as I see fit.

myorgan, Yes I certainly agree that the stoptabs are quite classy looking, and as you say, much nicer than plain Allen ones. As an Allen fan it kinda is tough to say that, but truth is truth ! There are no pipes on this one. That would be nice indeed, but actually in the space it is in, it would have been tough to place them without remodeling the loft extensively.

jbird, you wrote : "It is at least a serious church organ". Yes it certainly is - finally !!! And it is in a church that seems to be a wonderful fit for me personally, both theologically and musically. When I go there this week, I am not sure I will have time to climb up to inspect the speakers, but will of course be listening for potential issues.

My taking a position there is not a "sure, sure" thing yet. After talking to the pastor and a number of members, I have determined to find out more about the reason the previous organist left. There was an issue with pastor who was there before this one. I have to be confident that I am not stepping into a situation that still has hurt feelings on the part of some congregation members. Small town / church Politics / perhaps one or two families that "run" the church, etc. The members I talked to yesterday are really excited about the possibility of singing to "their organ" once again, rather than the CD accompaniments they are using now.

I will keep you all posted as this progresses. This is a good time of year to take on this position. The festival portion of the year is coming to it's end, and then I will have all summer to get acquainted with them, and they with me.

[Pipeorganbuilder]

Wishing you the very best Larry. Hope all works out for you and the church.

Michael

[Larrytow]

Hi everyone,

I thought I should give an update on this thread, as I was at the church two weeks ago, but have been too busy since then to get back to posting this. Again, thank you all for the good information that has been already provided. I spent about an hour and a half with it, and while it does have some issues, I think I may be reasonably satisfied with playing it. Still not "sure, sure" that I will be playing for them full time yet ( I am taking care of my elderly mom, so committing to every week is kinda tough right now ), but perhaps a couple times a month anyhow. And for big festivals almost certainly.

Due to it's location in the loft, as well as all the other "stuff" crammed in the alcove behind it, I did not get around to taking the back off it to inspect the guts of it. I'll have to push the console back to make clearance for the inner hinged panels, and I did not want to disrupt the storage situation behind the console. If I start playing there, that will surely be dealt with soon enough. But I did find out plenty about the organ, and I rather ( gasp ! ) like it. It is not my mighty Allen Q325 that I left behind in the big city, but it is Way better than most churches around here have.

Here are some things I found out about it. It works well, and sounds pretty decent. All the console functions seem to work just as designed / intended. No stops seem to be really way out of balance, and they add up to a nice ensemble. The mixtures seem a bit too soft for my taste ( both the normal and alternate ones ), but I'm thinking that can be adjusted fairly easily. The celestes have a very pleasant sound of course, being all analog technology. The reeds seem a bit harsh, but that may be due to the ratty speakers.

It has factory ( I think - was not inside yet ) installed MIDI ! It has the MIDI connectors under the right side keydesk, exactly where I was told they are supposed to be. It has two audio inputs there as well, so that makes hooking up a sound module real straightforward. I have not read all the documentation about the MIDI panel yet, but I would think if one is using a stereo module, you should use the A and B audio ins. Once I get inside I should be able to tell where each one goes to. I've got a nice ( vintage perhaps, but the same era as the organ ) Roland Sound Canvas SC-155 that I believe will work real nicely with it. That way I can have some nice options, even though it is not an organ specific module. Going to bring it along next time I go to visit the organ.

As I figured, some of the speakers are pretty ratty sounding. That is an age thing as we all know, but here it is enhanced by their location up high and right next to a window. I'm sure at least some of the woofers have bad foam, but I did not have the time to go up and inspect them. There are plans to replace those windows with stained glass ones, and the speakers will need to be relocated at that point, so I will deal with it then. The stained glass is being fabricated at this time, but there is no set delivery date yet. Probably late summer I would think - it's not really a winter job installing them in this part of the world.

If anyone can tell me what models of Rodgers speakers are there from the photos, that would be handy. I can't see anything that looks like a sub-woofer on the floor of the loft, do perhaps it is one of the 5 that are on the platform ? That is not where I would put one, but ya never can tell. The bass is rather weak at any rate, so I'm thinking there just is not one there. That will need to be added. However, it may be buried under the "stuff" in the alcove behind the organ.

After reading what I just wrote, I guess it sounds like I am already thinking like I will be playing there, taking care of the organ, advising on / doing the speaker relocation and repairs for the stained glass project and so on. Perhaps so; they all seem to be really nice committed people there.

[toodles]

Larry,

I believe the speakers are from a line of custom speaker cabinets that Rodgers offered in their late analog years. I saw some of these at a Rodgers dealer's warehouse in the late 1980's and that is how he described them. I have no idea what is in them--but I've never been impressed with Rodgers's design capabilities for speakers, at least in the analog years.

The Mixtures, by the way, would have the ability to be set to a "loud" and "soft" level independently of the "alternate mixtrues" choice, and they are, perhaps, set to "soft". I've never though that the Rodgers mixtures were too soft. Or, perhaps the "soft" setting is set too low. Compare the Great Principal (always on the loud setting) to the Great Gemshorn (always on the soft setting) and if the Gemshorn is very soft, the soft level is probably too low. The loud vs soft setting is via "front of the console" programming, the loud vs soft levels is internal on the Principal keyer boards (swell and great). There are also loud vs soft adjustments for the swell and great flutes, and swell Trompette.