Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Allen ADC 4000 Problem

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Allen ADC 4000 Problem

    Hello Forum Members!

    The ADC 4000 at my church is not working. Two notes on the Great played one day, and the next day nothing, except now two notes on the Swell!

    Any idea what might be the cause?

    Thanks for any and all ideas.

    Tom

  • #2
    Hi Tom,

    Welcome to the Forum. There are a lot of folks here who know many things about all different brands and models of organs. And they can be very helpful when trying to solve issues one may have with particular brands. One person may know a lot about a certain brand, another about a different brand, and so on.

    HOWEVER, your post is lacking DETAILS, so I'm fairly certain that no one will be able to help with such a sparse description of the issue you are having. Sorry to welcome you by kinda taking you to task, but seriously, that is one of the worst outlines of an issue I have seen in a long time.

    Please try again with a decent description of the problem, and we may be able to assist you.
    Regards, Larry

    At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

    Comment


    • #3
      Remove the pedalboard and see if the manuals will now play. To remove the pedalboard, lift at each side right where it touches the console. Raise about a half inch and pull away from the console a few inches. Then test the keys.

      The pedalboard has probably become out of alignment with the console. The console may be sitting on a carpet or on an unlevel floor. Easy cure is to put some pieces of wood about 2" square and about 3/8" thick under the two front corners of the console. This raises the front of the organ so that the pedalboard can now fit properly into the two notches and settle so that the magnets on the ends of the keysticks will be correctly lined up with the reed switches inside the plastic "smile" shaped contact assembly.

      Sometimes it may be necessary to adjust the two little screw-out buttons at the rear of the pedalboard to make it sit level. Normally they should be screwed all the way in unless leveling is needed. Worst case you have to re-position the contact rail. But 99% of the time it fixes it just to raise the front corners of the console a fraction of an inch.

      Another easy fix, if that doesn't work, is to add some thin felt in the notches where the wooden "bumps" of the pedals fit to hold it in place. I use the thinnest craft felt you can get at Hobby Lobby, glue it into the notches. This will compensate if the wooden notches have worn down a bit, causing misalignment of the pedals.

      If the problem turns out not to be related to the pedalboard, then you may have a bad board in the cage. But that will be much harder to deal with. Try removing the pedals first and that will tell you for sure.
      John
      ----------
      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
        Hi Tom,

        Welcome to the Forum. There are a lot of folks here who know many things about all different brands and models of organs. And they can be very helpful when trying to solve issues one may have with particular brands. One person may know a lot about a certain brand, another about a different brand, and so on.

        HOWEVER, your post is lacking DETAILS, so I'm fairly certain that no one will be able to help with such a sparse description of the issue you are having. Sorry to welcome you by kinda taking you to task, but seriously, that is one of the worst outlines of an issue I have seen in a long time.

        Please try again with a decent description of the problem, and we may be able to assist you.
        Hi Larry,

        My apologies for the brevity. I was posting from my phone. I'll try again.

        The Allen ADC 4000 at my church stopped making any sound several weeks ago. It didn't matter which stops were set, which manual or pedals were played, no sound at all. I had a suspicion, however. The lamp holder under the desk, that lights up the pedal area was dangling a bit, and I happened to knock it slightly and I heard a crackling like bare wires touching. I suspected a blown fuse.

        So I opened the organ and visually inspected each fuse I could find. I believe I found four. All appeared to be intact. I'll check again with a Volt Meter to be certain.

        I placed all fuses back in their holders and pressed every red Reset button I could see. I powered up the organ.

        I engaged every stop on the Great, Swell, and Pedals, and played every note on each manual. I found two notes that sounded on the Great; high G and G#. Nothing else made a sound.

        I turned the organ off, reset all the Resets again, and powered the organ up. Again, all stops engaged and this time two notes on the Swell worked; G above middle C and F# a half step lower. The notes that had previously worked on the Geeat no longer played.

        I did a little checking to see which Stops were playing but didn't do an exhaustive test. It seems the Flutes are sounding on those two notes but nothing else.

        Hope that helps.

        Tom

        - - - Updated - - -

        Hi John,

        Thanks for your helpful suggestions. I'll give them a try later this week or next weekend when I'm back at the church. I'll report my findings here.

        Tom

        Comment


        • #5
          Please do try removing the pedals before you tear into the console. You would not believe the number of times I have been told an Allen organ was "dead" only to find the pedalboard out of alignment. Very often it is because the console is sitting on a carpet, and over time the front "feet" of the console settle down into the pile. The pedalboard, being very lightweight compared to the console, does not settle into the carpet, and then it is out of line with the console.

          The reason for this is simple -- Allen uses a time slot system for all organ keying, and the system can select exactly 12 keys at a time. If more than 12 keys happen to be played at the same time, it locks up the system until they are released. A pedalboard that is not properly aligned with the contact rail will cause a large number of the reed switches to close due to stray magnetic fields. And that locks up the keying so that no keys on the manuals will play. In your case, it may be that exactly 10 of the reed switches happen to be latched on, thus you can get two manual notes to play.

          And I could be wrong. Your description is not completely consistent with a pedalboard lockup, since it seems that you can sometimes play on one manual and sometimes on the other. May turn out to be a bad KA board in the cage or USCM board. But the pedal thing is easy to try and won't cost anything.
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
            Please do try removing the pedals before you tear into the console. You would not believe the number of times I have been told an Allen organ was "dead" only to find the pedalboard out of alignment. Very often it is because the console is sitting on a carpet, and over time the front "feet" of the console settle down into the pile. The pedalboard, being very lightweight compared to the console, does not settle into the carpet, and then it is out of line with the console.

            The reason for this is simple -- Allen uses a time slot system for all organ keying, and the system can select exactly 12 keys at a time. If more than 12 keys happen to be played at the same time, it locks up the system until they are released. A pedalboard that is not properly aligned with the contact rail will cause a large number of the reed switches to close due to stray magnetic fields. And that locks up the keying so that no keys on the manuals will play. In your case, it may be that exactly 10 of the reed switches happen to be latched on, thus you can get two manual notes to play.

            And I could be wrong. Your description is not completely consistent with a pedalboard lockup, since it seems that you can sometimes play on one manual and sometimes on the other. May turn out to be a bad KA board in the cage or USCM board. But the pedal thing is easy to try and won't cost anything.
            Again, thanks, John! That's very interesting that the Allen does that.

            FWIW, the organ is sitting on a hardwood floor. But I'll be sure to try your suggestion and reset the pedalboard. If you've solved the issue, I'll be very grateful!

            Tom

            Comment


            • #7
              I removed the pedals from the console and tried the Great and Swell with all stops on and still no sound.

              I reattached the pedals and tried the manuals again and still no sound, except for one Bb on the Great.

              The captures still work, as do the amps and transposer.

              Any suggestions for next steps?

              Thanks!

              Comment


              • #8
                I think you have done all you can do. Time to bring in a qualified Allen tech who has an ADC service kit. Sounds to me like you have a bad board, either the USCM or the USKA in the cage.

                There is one more thing you might try, if you will be VERY careful. Open the cage and locate all the USEG boards. There could be USEG-1 or USEG-2 or another dash number, but be sure you are looking at only the USEG boards. Now, turn the organ OFF and pull all the USEG boards out about 2" from their normal position. Not enough to remove them from the cage, just enough to make sure they are disconnected. Then power up the organ and see if you now have any working stops.

                BTW, it's not good practice to test by putting down "all the stops" at once. Just turn on one stop at a time in each division to see if any of them work individually.

                If you do now have working stops, turn the organ OFF again and re-insert just one of the USEG boards. Turn the organ on and test again. IF you still have working stops in all divisions, turn the organ OFF once more and re-insert another one. Try the organ, and if it's still working, re-insert another one, and so on.

                If you find that a particular USEG board causes the organ to fail, that one is probably defective. But the only way to make sure of that is to try a new one in its place.

                If this doesn't make the organ work, you definitely will need a tech, as there is nothing else that can be done without the kit.
                John
                ----------
                *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks, John. I followed your instructions and got varied results from each EG card (there were three). I contacted a technician and he's visiting this Friday. I'll let the group know what he finds.

                  Thanks,
                  Tom

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Tom,

                    Thank you for sharing the update. As one who has 3 or 4 ADC organs, I can't wait to find the final cause, and hear your problem is resolved.

                    Michael
                    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The technician determined the problem was a faulty amplifier. It looks like there are four amps in the organ. He temporarily rerouted the audio going into the faulty amp to one of the other three using a Y cable. The organ is functional now, and he will eventually replace the faulty amp.

                      I don't understand why one faulty amp would cause the organ to make no sound at all. I would think that audio going to the good amps would still sound. Does anyone understand why one faulty amp would cause the entire organ to stop sounding?

                      Thanks,
                      Tom

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X