Allen model ADC-320 info

[JoelHof]

Hello All,

I think I've finally found a suitable organ for my practicing and further learning. I've search all over the forum and internet for this particular model and can't find much, if any information. Is anybody familiar with this model as far as stop list, features, midi, general specs, size, weight, etc.? It has the full 32 key pedals, but I'm pretty sure they are not AGO. Don't know. Would this be a good organ for practicing/learning to play liturgical/classical music with? At any rate, I'm going to look at it tomorrow and would like as much feedback on exactly what it is before I go. At least a stop list and if the selection is of a classical nature. Any other features would be a bonus.

Thank you all for your feedback,

Joel

Attached is a picture from the ad but not of the actual instrument. Possibly from the manual?

[Melos Antropon]

Well, for starters, I can tell you that the pedalboard is standard AGO configuration, yes. That's a good thing. Many people play classical on organs like that, but leave the trems "off".

Tony

[samibe]

From the picture, the pedal sharps seem to have the swoop that was typical for Allen princess pedalboards.

It's an MADC organ so it should sound nice.

I consider myself a classical organist, but I own a theatre organ because they seem to be considerably less expensive than classical consoles. I also think the tab arrangement is very convenient. It does take some skill with registering to get it to sound very classical but it can be done.

Your best bet at getting a stoplist would be to email Allen and request a spec sheet. It will also have information about the console size, audio features, add-ons, etc.

Before buying, check that every note and stop works. Some things aren't too difficult to fix but other things can be very expensive to have repaired. Also, take lots of pictures inside and out. Good luck.

[JoelHof]

Thanks everyone for the replies. At least the pedal board is 32 note and concave. According to the ad, "all keys, tabs and pedals work". I didn't ask the owner on the phone but I'll be checking it out tomorrow hopefully. I suppose I can't go wrong being it's free, provided everything works or is repairable by me. I just hope I can move it without too much trouble. Maybe I can rent some piano dollies somewhere. I emailed Allen to see if I could get a spec. sheet. Waiting to hear back from them. I'm just hoping it can sound like a church/classical organ as apposed to straight theater organ sounds. They listed it as a church organ. Also wondering if there are alternate sounds available like on the MOS organs with the card readers.

Again, thanks for the replies,

Joel

[toodles]

The small, 3 digit ADC organs (really MADC) did not offer the alterable voices. They used a lot of borrowing on these models, so the number of different voices is not as big as the number of stops. But they sound nice, and the price is right.

[Larrytow]

Joel,

As mentioned above, that one has the Compact or Princess style pedalboard, not fully AGO size. And it is a theater organ, so won't have mixtures, and the flute stops will sound like tibias. But, for free its OK. Gotta love being afflicted with OAS !

[JoelHof]

Thanks for the replies tootles and Larry,

Allen was awesome. Got right back to me with a spec sheet and some answers.

Stop List:
Pedal:
Tuba 16
Diapason 16
Tibia Clausa 16
Trumpet 8
Diapason 8
Tibia Clausa 8
Clarinet 8
String 8
Piano Mode
Sustain
Accomp. to Pedal

Accompaniment:
Trumpet 8
Diapason 8
Tibia Clausa 8
Clarinet 8
String 8
Vox Humana 8
Tibia 4
String 4
Piccolo 2
Piano Mode
Sustain
Solo to Accomp.

Solo:
Tuba 16
Diapason 16
Tibia Clausa 16
Trumpet 8
Diapason 8
Tibia Clausa 8
Oboe 8
Clarinet 8
String 8
Vox Humana 8
Tibia 4
String 4
Twelfth 2-2/3
Piccolo 2
Fife 1
Chimes
Percussion

Generals
Tibia/Vox Trem.
Main Trem.
Celeste Tuning
Chiff
Sustain Short
Reverb
Memory B

So tootles, the "borrowing" that you are referring to, does that mean for example the Diapason 8 is shared between the pedal, accomp, and solo, that it's all from the same voice generator? Don't know if I'm using the proper terminology here. It says it has "multi-rank ensemble sound". Is this better than the MDC-20 or are they along the same lines? Will this better equip me to learn/practice liturgical/classical music for now? Will I be able to set up the registration to get that classical/church sound and play some glorious music? (I know you can play glorious music with any instrument. LOL)

Eventually I'll run across that dream organ. In the mean time ... serious OAS. Need a break. Hopefully this will hold me over for now. Should I go get that Conn 651 or that H25-3 that's available .... hmmmmm ... I digress.

Joel

[toodles]

The borrowing that occurs is called "duplexing" in pipe organ terminology. Different from unification. Unification uses the same voice at different pitches. Duplexing keeps the same pitch, but provides the same voice in different divisions.

The smaller ADC models, like this one, are much better than the MDC models. If you are OK with theatre voices, I'd go for this one. It should be a pretty nice organ.

For classical work, try playing the upper keyboard (solo) an octave higher than written, and use 16 ft stops like 8ft, etc. When you try it out, you'll find out if you can get sounds that you like for classical work. I would not worry about that excessively. You won't, however, probably get a decent classical trem on this organ--if you like classical music with some trem at times.

I think you'll like the organ.

[JoelHof]

Thanks for the reply tootles,

I'm pretty excited now. On the spec sheet it does say "Separate Tremulants for Tibias and Mains (Adjustable for Speed and Depth)". Would the adjustments get it in the ball park for a classical trem? And on the duplexing vs unification. Duplexing would be the same sound on the different divisions, for example, if I select Tibia Clausa 8 on all three divisions, they would all sound the exact same for the same note? As for unification, if I select Tibia Clausa 16 on the solo, and Tibia Clausa 8 on the Acc., and play a note an octave higher on the solo than the Acc., would that sound the exact same? Or would the 16 have a different "voice" and sound slightly different? Is that where the "Multi-Rank Ensemble Sound" kicks in? There is "Custom Voicing and Finishing", what ever that is ...

I didn't want a theater model per se, I have my SR7, but this came up and I can't resist. Just hoping to get the "church" organ sound without using a separate computer.

I suppose I'll find out tomorrow if all goes well ... :)

[toodles]

Duplexing works as you describe: Tibia 8 is the same for Pedal, Accomp, and Solo. If they were unified (and I don't believe any digital Allen did that until the Renaissance Series), the Tibia 16, 8, and 4 would be the same sound, just different pitch, so Middle C on the 8 ft Tibia would be the same as Tenor C (an octave down) on the 4 ft. Tibia. I believe Allen provided different sounds at different pitches, though they might be very similar.

"Multi-Rank Ensemble Sound" is just a marketing name--it implies there are different pitch sources for different voices. The celeste tuning will increase the effect nicely.

Custom Voicing and finishing is Bass, Treble, Midrange, and Gain for voices but they are grouped in this size organ, not adjustable for an individual voice. Usually organists find these sufficient to achieve a good sound balance.

If tremulants are adjustable for speed and depth, then they use Trem 3 or Trem 4 units, and the speed and depth can be adjusted as you like--shallow for a more classical sound, deeper for a more theatrical sound. But changing requires adjustments inside the console.

[JoelHof]

Excellent information tootles. Thank you very much. Looking forward to checking it out today ...

[MarkS]

In this organ there are fifteen unique voices on the Solo. Every voice on the Accompaniment and Pedal is borrowed from one of those fifteen on the Solo. Those fifteen voices would be split between two generators/audio channels which are slightly out-of-tune from each other. (I guess "Multi" can mean just two in advertising parlance!) As mentioned by Toodles, activation of celeste tuning will increase the pitch differential.

Since there is a separate tremulant for the tibias and vox humana it is likely that those seven voices are on one channel and the remainder on the other. (The church models in this series do not have such an option.)

There should be two sets of adjustments (gain, bass, treble, midrange) for the two channels.

[Larrytow]

Joel,

Good luck today ! Free is a good price, and you will be impressed with the quality of an Allen console ( even a smallish one like this ). Don't just "go look " - take the trailer right away !

[samibe]

Joel, That stoplist looks very capable of a reasonable classical sound. There are some diapasons in all divisions. There are a few reeds that should sound very nice. (A similar sized classical organ would probably only have one reed). There aren't any mixtures but there are some really high flutes that can be used instead. It's not the same but it is usually close enough.

Even though the basis of the solo manual is the 16' stops, you don't have to use them. I regularly use only the 8' (and up) stops on my organ because there are plenty of stops at and above 8'. It works well for the music I play. I have found that having some extra 16' stops on the manuals comes in handy sometimes even for non-theatre music.

I seldom use the trems. I just don't care for the effect that much. The person I purchased my organ from told me that the trems in my organ were more classical trems and that he had to tweak them a lot to get them to sound theatrical. I'm not sure if that is the case for this MADC organ. If it has trem boards like my ADC, it should be possible to dial them back to a more classical effect.

The celeste tuning is fun and can be used to get a reasonable celeste between any of the stops shared by the Solo and Acc. On my organ, it lowers the pitch of the Acc and Great divisions a little bit. So any stops selected on the Solo and coupled to the Acc (with the same stops selected) would produce a good celeste. It might also affect some of the stops on one of the divisions more than the rest of the division. IIRC, the celeste tuning affects the strings in the solo division (on my organ). So, I can get a mild celeste by using the String and Vox stops together (as they are slightly out of tune with each other) or I can get a more aggressive string celeste with the String, Vox , and Celeste Tuning stops selected. That leaves the other divisions open to other registrations.

You'll have to do some experimenting to figure out how well it will do what you want it to or at least how to work with what it can do. Good luck.

[JoelHof]

Well .... I checked it out and chose not to get it. Bummed. I just couldn't seem to get nice "churchy" sounds out of it. As a matter of fact, this being my first encounter with an Allen organ in person, I was unimpressed with the sounds in general. They just seemed lacking, muddy, "vintage"? Not classical at all to my untrained ears, or theater like for that matter. Maybe the internal speakers are shot and it didn't sound like it should have. Not sure, but I don't think it's right for me. Oh well. Something will come along ... I've heard the MOS organs on youtube and they sound great. That Allen 603 that tootles had pointed out to me in a different thread may have set the bar too high. Something will come along that's of a traditional nature, God willing, and I get it. In the mean time I can still learn/practice on what I have. Thanks for all your input.