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  • Originally posted by MarkS View Post
    The TC4 looked handsome in drawknob dress.
    Thanks for the info, Mark. The TC4 has no couplers, so that must be the GEN-general section tabs in the middle.
    -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
    -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

    Comment


    • Lamar,

      Have you seen the brochure section of the Forum? (https://www.organforum.com/gallery/t...bum=128&page=9). You might find more information there on the original specs.

      Michael
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

      Comment


      • Thanks, Michael - I have, um... the '63 TC-4 price list and organ brochure, which were given to me. I'd like to upload them but never figured out how. Totally my fault, as Admin was gone to Burning Man, and I forgot to follow up with him. I uploaded a "Theater Deluxe" service bulletin addendum to the analog service manual to a folder in my gallery. That needs to be moved to the general area, too.
        -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
        -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
        -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

        Comment


        • Finished Allen Home Gyro Cabinet

          Look what followed me home.

          Click image for larger version

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          It's a 60's Allen gyro in a finished cabinet. Those impressive-looking hooters are metal and have a flapper valve and separate motor/drive belt that they speak through before exiting the top. This has a couple of features (like the horns and flapper) mentioned earlier by more experienced users in this thread.


          The speakers in the rotor appear to be mid-ranges with tweeters. I don't see where it has ever had an amp or crossover installed previously. I'm not sure I want to use it with the Allen, as it would, I'm guessing, replace the single stationary reed speaker the TC-4 already has. But nothing's saying I couldn't use the horns on the reeds and the gyro on the diapasons. Anyway, the AC comes into a literal black box on the gyro floor before it goes to the motor. A separate AC circuit goes to the shaker.

          I really like the lazy swirl that a DC gyro can do when idling, but so far it looks this model was "all or nothing."

          I also got an even *smaller* gyro. It's a cute little cub that needs some work, but it could be stuck just about anywhere.

          I have some reading, study, and experimenting to do...

          Did I actually say that the hooters have flappers? Maybe it's the other way around.
          Last edited by Silken Path; 11-06-2018, 05:58 PM.
          -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
          -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
          -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

          Comment




          • Make something awesome out of that stuff, and keep us all informed.

            (BTW, it was a pleasure to meet you. Only wish we could have had a longer visit.)
            John
            ----------
            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
              (BTW, it was a pleasure to meet you. Only wish we could have had a longer visit.)
              Ah, the rest of the story unfolds.

              Lamar, isn't John a good guy in person? ...And that's one of the many reasons the Forum exists. It's great to see members connecting for such constructive reasons.

              Michael
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • Originally posted by myorgan View Post
                Ah, the rest of the story unfolds.

                Lamar, isn't John a good guy in person? ...And that's one of the many reasons the Forum exists. It's great to see members connecting for such constructive reasons.

                Michael
                Well, I was going to keep it SECRET, but since John doesn't mind....

                Off topic, but I also picked up a Rodgers W5000 to use for parts for mine. I played the organ in the U-Haul for a couple of hours yesterday and now I'm TORN. It needs some TLC and could be a respectable organ again, but I only lust after it for it for its PARTS. This may not end well for it.

                John's place is Allen town. I saw an Allen theater organ, and it was smaller than I imagined. There was also a huge, old Johannus that looked wonderfully SCARY, like it might just close up its stop boards and SNAP at you - like something from a ride at Disneyland.

                Nary a TC-1, 3, or 4 in sight, but the place SMELLED GOOD, like well-used electronics and the slight, old tang of must and mildew from CHURCHES.
                -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                Comment


                • It's always great to meet and put a face with a name and talk with somebody who totally understands this obsession we share! Unfortunately, I've only had the pleasure of meeting a couple of long-time forum members, but I have talked to quite a few on the phone, received nice Christmas cards and gifts, exchanged emails or become Facebook friends. The forum was also the first contact I had with the young man who is now half-owner of the shop and business. I do envy some of you who live very close to other forumites. It must be great to have others close enough to stop by for a visit or a cup of coffee and talk organ.

                  I'm not really all by myself here in the organ desert. There is an active AGO chapter and I know some of those guys and gals pretty well, though I've not felt compelled to join. Many of them have advanced degrees and play on the finest pipe organs, so I'm not in the same league. And few of them are interested in the nuts of bolts of organs in the way so many of us are on the forum. I still do organ service calls two or three days a week, so I meet someone now and then who shares my interest to some extent. It's just that we organ nerds are such rare birds, it's an unexpected pleasure to discover another one out in the wild.

                  I wonder if there is an old organist's retirement home that we could all move to one of these days?
                  John
                  ----------
                  *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                  Comment


                  • I totally agree. Nobody in my family understands why I want more than one organ. And it was a pleasure meeting you and seeing your shop. A little sunshine might have made it better, but at least the monsoon paused long enough for us.

                    Now back to this gyro. I've had a couple of suggestions that it might be good for reeds - to add a throb to them. Really, I don't know WHAT to do with that "reed chorus" I have on the Allen. It's not particularly lovely sounding, and I did just put new horns and tweeters in it's (stationary) speaker. Bear in mind that I mostly play (badly) Hank Williams and the Baptist Hymnal. I have the (heavy and) heavy-duty gyro 100 on the Flutes channel, and it works very well with the 50-watt amp.

                    I could also put one or two 1/4" plugs and an amp in this gyro. Then I could use it with any organ with a line out, sort of like how I've used the Conn pipes, which are now hooked up to my little Rodgers instead of the Conn.

                    The motor is pretty worn, but the rotor spins beautifully - about 15 seconds if spun by hand.

                    I'm also going to look inside that black box on the floor of the gyro. I only see one 110 cord going in and coming out, but there may be more.

                    This gyro shall live!
                    -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                    -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                    Comment


                    • I've never actually heard a working "reed flapper" on an Allen, but apparently a lot of theater models had one. It might be very interesting if you get it hooked up somehow. I suppose that gyro cabinet originally had a matching bass module, since the flute section of it is just 8" speakers and the reed section is just the horns. Too bad I didn't have that part with it, but if you have Allen service manuals and drawings you can figure out how it was supposed to be wired up.
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                      Comment


                      • Thanks, John. I looked under the box and it's a 14 VDC relay similar to dozens of them in the TC-4. It goes to the flapper and only two of the pins are used. The connections in the junction box are straight through except for one fuse on the input. I have the motor off, and it has seen better days. I'm going to see what I can find out about it.

                        John - those two base drivers I saw in the back of your shop look like the two I have in the 24" box under the gyro 100, and the several mid-ranges in the amp/traps box that sits under the smaller gyro look like the midranges in my sweet sixteen. Allen must have bought zillions of them.
                        -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                        -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                        -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
                          I wonder if there is an old organist's retirement home that we could all move to one of these days?
                          I'm not sure that would work. Too many organists per organ, or too many repair techs per organ. Ever heard the lightbulb scenario?

                          Michael
                          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                          Comment


                          • Progress, of a sort. With nothing to lose (except a fuse) I tried a Hammond self-starting capacitor that I had laying around on the Robbins & Myers 1/10 HP 1650 RPM Type KP motor from the gyro. It started and ran smoothly, except for a cyclic pulsation I could hear but not see, even with a fingertip pressed against the shaft.

                            Now that I have the original capacitor off, I can see that it's a Mallory 5 MFD 265 VAC. Let's see what the ex-Hammond was... It's a 3 MFD 370 VAC.

                            The capacitor I removed has a bulge on the backside with a trail of rust below it. I shall travel down to the local electric supply place (who have seen better days, pre-Lowes) and ask if they have a 5 MFD starting capacitor.

                            The motor needs a good cleaning, too. I have already gotten some advice about that via PM (and thank you, sir!).

                            All right... apparently the capacitor is a "run capacitor" that actually charges some of the windings to create a rotating field inside the motor. Wikipedia says:

                            If a wrong capacitance value is installed, it will cause an uneven magnetic field around the rotor. This causes the rotor to hesitate at the uneven spots, resulting in irregular rotation, especially under load.

                            Hmm... could that be the cyclic pulsation I'm seeing? From putting a 3 MFD in where a 5 MFD was?

                            Anyway, I'm still going to get the proper capacitor for it.
                            Last edited by Silken Path; 11-07-2018, 08:45 PM.
                            -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                            -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                            -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                            Comment


                            • Oh dear! I forgot to put those Allen woofers into your trailer. I have several of them, and wanted you to have that pair and the baffle they are mounted on. Well, they're not worth much anyway. Yes, Allen must have bought them by the hundreds, as that same woofer was used starting way back in the analog era and going up through early MOS. And in every usage the woofer was wired in series with a 14 mH choke to keep the highs out of it.

                              You are surely on the right track replacing that run capacitor. The bulge is a sure sign that it needs replacing. We have to do that frequently on Hammond organ start/run caps on the models without a starting motor. I get them from various internet suppliers for the Hammond motors. They can cost anywhere from around $10 to about $30, depending on the value and where I'm buying. Makes a huge difference in the quietness and smoothness of rotation.

                              BTW, the belts that Allen used from motor to the big pulleys on various gyros were made by Gates and can still be purchased as well, though I don't know the source. I ordered 3 or 4 from Allen a few years ago and still have a couple left, so I haven't needed to find an internet source.
                              John
                              ----------
                              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                              Comment


                              • Hi, John. No problem. I don't have any bass reeds on the Allen anyway (but the little Rodgers has an 8-16-32 that I've tried on the pedals).

                                Thank you for the information on the run capacitor and belts! THIS run cap I have came from my E100 - Organ #3.

                                I ordered a new, old motor for it a couple of years ago, and the motor came with a NEW run capacitor attached.) I simply pulled the motor, capacitor, and wiring in mass. That was from Tonewheel General. (I like them.)

                                I've been reading about run capacitors and AC motor theory. Cool stuff. I read that fore/aft play is generally not critical because the stator self-locates itself somewhere near the optimal flux when running. That motor from the Hammond had rotary slop, though. It had lived its days.
                                -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                                -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                                -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                                Comment

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