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    #16
    Well, according to the diagrams (for the TC-1), two or three wires go each terminal post. So this *is* a fairly big problem (that requires more study).
    -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
    -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

    Comment


      #17
      Well, the project shall continue... I bought another TC-4 on eBay today. It's about 200 miles away, which will be my third shortest trip for an organ.

      This one comes with one gyro projector, one full multi-tweeter box, one full mid-range box, one half midrange box, one shelving unit, three amplifiers, one power conditioner with switches, dials, and a meter, and an impressive pile of connecting cables. When I figure out how to connect everything (and create enough room for all this) it should just work. I have a 500 sq ft garage that I'm planning to install it in.

      And with that, I shall start Lamar's Church of Insane Indulgence... Oh, well, it's cheaper than a sports car.
      -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
      -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
      -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
      -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
      -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Silken Path View Post
        And with that, I shall start Lamar's Church of Insane Indulgence... Oh, well, it's cheaper than a sports car.
        Another one bites the dust!!!

        Lamar, welcome to to the ranks of organ hoarders! You have officially moved from the ranks of the inane to the insane (there's no emoticon for that).

        The first "real" church organ I ever played (& learned on) was an Allen TC-4S. The setterboards were quite cumbersome, but they did force me to put a lot of foresight into my registrations, as they were too cumbersome to change on a whim. Although it had no mixtures, the mutations in the Swell allowed some variety, and although the organ doesn't have strings in general, you can use the General tab where Diapasons become Dulciana, but it affects the entire organ (I think). Allen's analog Reeds were generally good as well--even in a dead space.

        Somewhere here, I have an "owners manual" of sorts for the TC-4S. It was typed on a typewriter, so it's nothing like what one would have received from Allen, but it does help explain some of the features of that particular organ. Let me know if you'd like to have a copy of it.

        Sadly, this sickness will never pass. I've slowed down my "collecting" only at the directive of my wife, but every time I see an historic or nice organ on the Internet for sale, my heart skips a beat--thinking either it will be "flipped," mutilated, or otherwise thrown on the trash heap. Only recently have I begun wondering what will happen to all my organs when I meet my Maker. Will they be thrown on the trash heap, mutilated, or otherwise destroyed?

        Thank you for preserving yet another piece of history. The added bonus is that you now have a reference instrument for the one you're repairing. It is extremely unlikely both organs will have the exact same issues you've described elsewhere in this thread. Thank you for giving them a good home! My best with your collection.

        Michael
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

        Comment


          #19
          With my best southern accent: "Ah SWEAR ah'm-uh gonna stop."

          I haven't seen my "new" TC-4 yet, but I hope that *it* is going to become the project and I'll keep the other one for parts. Yep, I think it's cool that they are the first transistor church organs, and even that they have pretty conventional "textbook" transistor circuit design.

          I'm sure that there will be a host of problems getting this system up and working. (Man is born to trouble as the sparks fly upward.) I'm going to have three of the T-50 amps, so I guess that means no Celeste generator in this one, either. Sigh. Allen says that the TC-4 with three cabinets (two projectors) draws 850 watts. That was with the tube-type amps in the speakers. (I have one of the modern Crown amps already, 200-watt, that would work as a replacement if one of the amps is bad.)

          I try to play each organ I have once per week, just to keep them ticking. The Rodgers is my daily player, but it has the red-goo adhesive failure mode, so it may be DOOMED, and I like to play the Kimball pumper like a maniac during thunderstorms - when I have everything else unplugged. Well, a maniac with a '56 Baptist hymnal of me...

          I'm going to go get the organ and stuff Saturday. I'll probably be sore for two weeks after this.

          Michael - Thank you for the offer. Somewhere I read that Allen will send you a facsimile of the original manual for a small fee. I going to fill out the form and see what they have.
          -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
          -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
          -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
          -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
          -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

          Comment


            #20
            Welcome to the asylum!

            In the back of my head, I think Allen did not use a separate audio channel for the celeste, but mixed it into the main diapason "trunk" as they seemed to call them.

            No reason you couldn't combine the organs! At a minimum, you could add celeste if you don't have it by adding the diapason oscillators from the spare organ. Certainly you could have a 2nd reed with a different voicing. Flute celeste, anyone?

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by toodles View Post
              No reason you couldn't combine the organs! At a minimum, you could add celeste if you don't have it by adding the diapason oscillators from the spare organ. Certainly you could have a 2nd reed with a different voicing. Flute celeste, anyone?
              Intriguing possibilities, Toodles! How about it, Lamar?

              Michael
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

              Comment


                #22
                As said above, the "owners manual" for a TC-4 is pretty simple and basic. I think I gave the one I had to the new owner of my TC-4, so I don't have one here to look at. There really is nothing in the manual that you don't already know about the organ. If I recall right, most of the manual consisted of instructions for what registrations were good for various things.

                I need to preface this next part by saying that I am a big Allen Fan, because they have always made a very high class instrument, and continue to do so. However, their owners manuals are pretty much always AWFUL !!!! They have very little info in them beyond the absolute basics. This includes the one for the Q325 I play, and that is a pretty substantial organ.

                They are even worse when it comes to making decent manuals for all the advanced features they are putting in their organs now. When I was getting familiar with the VISTA unit, the manual was worse than useless. I ended up writing some instructions that made sense for the other organists that play that organ, so they could use the unit too. It's a good thing that I actually like playing "with" organs even a bit more than playing them, because it took Many Hours of trial and putzing to really get the good stuff from the VISTA unit.

                It is just hard to believe that Allen makes such wonderful instruments, but cant seem to write a decent, comprehensive manual for them.
                Regards, Larry

                At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by toodles View Post
                  In the back of my head, I think Allen did not use a separate audio channel for the celeste, but mixed it into the main diapason "trunk" as they seemed to call them.
                  Hey, Tootles - now that IS interesting. I'll soon know, but when I asked the seller (apparently an electrical contractor that removed this organ from a church) how many "drawers" it had inside, he said it had four - one named diapason, flutes, and reeds... and one named "regulate." Looking at the one here today, I realized that "Regulate" is a placard for a trim pot on the right of an oscillator bank. So it may have the separate celeste after all. I'll find out Saturday.

                  Hi, Larrytow - Gee, the "suggested registrations" part is the part I *like.* Remember that I did just fall off the turnip truck. The User's Guide for my Rodgers has 171 pages and nary a single registration. (They might have sold more of them if they were easier to understand.)

                  Why stop at borrowing an oscillator set for celeste? I could get the stop tabs and have double tabs. It would sound like a teletype when I push a preset. Might as well get a manual or two while I'm at it...

                  From the seller's pictures, it looks like it's *prettier* than the one I have, too.
                  -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                  -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                  -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                  -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                  -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                  Comment


                    #24
                    The practical limit is how much stuff you can cram into the console!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Good point, Tootles.

                      TC-4 #1 is now on the floor in the garage (!) and I have cleared out a spot large enough for #2 and the speakers and equipment shelf, I hope.

                      #1 was free (thank you former owner) and the one I'm getting now was *cheap* considering how much equipment it comes with. I'll be pleased as punch if the organ *does* have the celeste bank, but there's some fun modern stuff I can try, too. (I have a Ventilator II and a Nanoverb.) I seem to be a fiend for reverb, but there's no critics here to tell me not to.

                      And I do hope it was removed because the church was going praise band instead of because the organ was SO unreliable. Seriously, I don't think an electrical contractor would have removed it if the church was buying a newer organ.

                      I read that some of the "TC" organs were put in "compact consoles." Just looking at Google images and YouTube, I haven't figured out what the compact console might have been or looked like. This is the heaviest organ I've ever messed with. Grab it, set my heels, and PUSH and nothing at all happens. It takes a LUNGE to push or pull the thing. I hope THIS is not considered compact.

                      Tomorrow I and a trusty 6x12 dual axle U-haul are off to get #2.

                      I *will* take pictures. This is going to be fun, I can tell.
                      Last edited by Silken Path; 07-06-2018, 07:39 PM. Reason: Word usage "considering" instead of "compared to"
                      -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                      -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                      -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                      -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                      -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Got the "new" TC-4 home

                        I'm back from rainy, but beautiful Tennessee, and three traffic jams due to road construction that wasted an hour total, and have TC-4 #2 with me. (It's still in the U-haul until tomorrow.) First of all, here is the mystery device that I thought might be a power conditioner.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        As you can see, it's a "Whind Machine." I found this: "The Whind Modulator is keying voltage for the entire organ..." So maybe TC-4 #1 had that wire connection soldered to one of the springs on the "brass keying strip" because it did not HAVE a Whind Machine that worked. So the next step is apparently to find out if #2 has the same mod and was not USING the whind machine.

                        I was under the impression that the organ had 3 1/2 speakers. Actually, there were two more. One is marked "Low" and one "Mid" and two contain smaller speakers. The seller warned me that the tweeters had been removed. The gyro projector has it own amp, it looks like. It's solid state and has a huge selenium rectifier or similar stack on top of it.

                        That "mid" and "low" make me wonder. I thought it would have separate outputs for the diapason, reeds, and flutes, with the celeste piggybacking with the diapason. So which of the outputs would go to the gyro? What outputs would likely have gone to the mid and low speakers?

                        Yes, the organ DOES have the celeste generator. I couldn't wait to look for that.

                        Which church had it is unknown. It was obtained at the behest of a family friend for an older woman who was an organist, but she had developing dementia and they never actually got it set up for her to play. The seller had previously asked about what church, but she did not remember.

                        Maybe some organist feeling nostalgic will be reading this forum and will recognize the organ from the description. It was installed SOMEWHERE around the Cleveland, TN area.
                        -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                        -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                        -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                        -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                        -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Electronic "Whind" was a patented Allen device for adding some noise to simulate the sound of wind-blown organ pipes. Whind generators would fail (they originally used a neon lamp for the noise generator) and were often either shut off or disconnected by the service tech. Allen had a replacement unit for that neon lamp. My theater organ has the whind generator disconnected so the 14 Volt keying voltage goes straight to the generators instead of through the Whind generator. I bought another unit on ebay a couple of years ago but because it is such a pain to move my 3 manual console across the carpet I've never tried to test or install it. Perhaps when I move...

                          Gyrophonic projectors (I have four) came in single speed AC versions and multi-speed DC versions. The chassis with the selenium rectifiers is most likely the driver for the DC motor. The right hand portion of your Whind generator is a tremulant generator - usually used for the reed channel because they didn't include a 3rd gyro cabinet with most TC-4 organs. I have schematics for several versions of Whind generators - the one in your photo is an older one. Some times there were multiple Whind generators - one for each manual.

                          You could order the TC-4 with many different speaker options. I have sales literature for the TC-4 and all of the ordering options. PM me with your email address and I will scan the Allen material and send it to you via pdf.

                          Take photos of the backs of your speakers (and note the model number plates) so we can see which models you got. It will be interesting to see if you have the upward firing Jensen horns for the reed channel.
                          Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand name.

                          Main: Allen RMWTHEA.3 with Rocky Mount Electra-Piano, Allen 423-C + Gyro cabinet, Britson Opus OEM38, Saville Series IV Opus 209, Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI
                          Lower Level: Hammond 9812H with roll player, Gulbransen Rialto, Roland E-200, Vintage Moog
                          Shop: Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with 18 speakers and MIDI, 4 Allen theater organ tone cabinets (including 3 Gyros, but don't call me Gyro Gearloose!).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Thanks, Larry - That same service bulletin I quoted above discussed how to bypass the whind generator with that jumper wire up to the brass strip/spring section on the TC-1, 3, and 4. I'll look for that in #2 when I get it inside. Finding space for these speakers is going to be a booger, but I do want to keep the gyro. #1 I thought has some sideways controls to run the gyro.

                            Good information - thanks' again.
                            -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                            -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                            -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                            -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                            -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Larry, I think you may have answered a question for me. One speaker has two rectangular openings with four screw holes and nothing there. My luck, those would be the Jensens. I'll get some pictures later today.

                              The speakers are made of plywood and are kind of crude. A church would not want these to show. I don't see any data plates on them - just long numbers magic marked in the corner buttresses. I'm not going to get the top one in one stack up there by myself. I'll wait for an inlaw or nephew to show up.

                              TC-4 #1 has Celeste sideways switches for the upper and lower manual, which #2 does not have. #2 has a light for "electronic blower."

                              #2 also has some lichenous growth on the keys, which don't feel as good, actually, as #1. That growth is resistant to spit and finger rubbing. Let's see what Windex and finger rubbing can do.
                              -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                              -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                              -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                              -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                              -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Here are the the four speaker types that came with TC4-#2. There are two of the speakers shown at lower LEFT. These are angled slightly upward, as are the speakers at lower right where I suspect that some Jensens may have been.

                                Click image for larger version

Name:	TC4sSpeakers.jpg
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ID:	606018
                                Last edited by Silken Path; 07-08-2018, 04:50 PM.
                                -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
                                -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
                                -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
                                -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
                                -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

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