Does This Organ Exist?

[voet]

A month ago I acquired a used Content Pastorale D5800. This instrument has 5 divisions playable from 3 manuals and pedal. This is far more organ than I ever thought I would have in my home and I am really glad to have it.

In the time I have owned it I have regulated the entire instrument. It allows the user to adjust volume for the organ as a whole, by division, by stop and by note. After I set the master volume and the volume for each division at the maximum setting, I adjusted the volume for each stop and every note of every stop. As I play pieces, I make further adjustments. Everything is now about as good as I think I am able to get it with the tools at my disposal.

However, there are some things I cannot do and I wonder, is there a digital organ that gives the owner the ability to:

1. Adjust the chiff on each note.
2. Adjust the individual ranks in a mixture.
3. Adjust the timbre of a rank.

Additionally it would be nice to be able to:

1. Create a custom specification that could be changed on an individual stop basis.
2. Create a custom mixture.

Is there such a thing on the market?

[MarkS]

Judging from the manufacturers' websites Viscount physical modelling organs would come the closest. Go to their channel on YouTube and check the tutorials for changes that can be made from the display on the console. Then go to viscountinstruments.com and view the support page to determine what can be done using the USB interface and downloads from Viscount.

Josh Dove, their representative in the US, sometimes posts here. Maybe he can help.

I have no affiliation with the company...as I head back to practice on a 1957 (!) Allen.

[Admin]

With exception of adjusting the chiff on a note-by-note basis, VPO software, such as Hauptwerk can meet your requirements. In general, though, systems using a pure physical modeling approach, e.g. Viscount Physis, or harmonic synthesis, e.g. Copeman-Hart, will provide greater voicing flexibility than sample based systems. Having said that, the more voicing options there are, the greater skill set required of the voicer.

[MarkS]

With exception of adjusting the chiff on a note-by-note basis, VPO software, such as Hauptwerk can meet your requirements. In general, though, systems using a pure physical modeling approach, e.g. Viscount Physis, or harmonic synthesis, e.g. Copeman-Hart, will provide greater voicing flexibility than sample based systems. Having said that, the more voicing options there are, the greater skill set required of the voicer.

This raises an interesting question. Is Copeman-Hart still synthesis? I assume that it now uses the Johannus Monarke sampled technology. Eminent should still be additive synthesis.

Hauptwerk would be a much less expensive solution compared with trading organs. A "techie" could even sample organs pipe-by-pipe. Sorry I missed that option.

[Dutchy]

1. Adjust the chiff on each note.
2. Adjust the individual ranks in a mixture.
3. Adjust the timbre of a rank.

Additionally it would be nice to be able to:

1. Create a custom specification that could be changed on an individual stop basis.
2. Create a custom mixture.

Is there such a thing on the market?

Dear Voet,

A Viscount Physis definitely can adjust the timbre of a rank and with editorsoftware (to buy separately) one can also create a custom specification ie lay an extra 8' on the place of any other stop.

The end-user cannot adjust the individual ranks of the mixture or create a custom one (though this must be possible by factory employees, of course).

Adjusting the chiff on each note is not possible in a Physis organ (by the end-user), but one can set the 'air noise' (per stop) high and the 'character' (timbre per stop) low, and there will be considerable chiff, especially when the feature 'tracker touch' is on and he air config is set to high air flexibility. Nevertheless, this is not 'per note' but 'per stop'.

I know this because I'm the owner of such an instrument.

Grtz, D.

[voet]

I really appreciate the responses from everyone. I thought that Physis might offer the greatest degree of control. I will check it out further.

The reason I would like to adjust the chiff on a note by note basis is because there is more chiff on some notes in some of the ranks and it really bugs me. It makes the note "stick out." My only experience with such things is working with a voicer on a pipe organ. Obviously when someone digitally records pipes for a digital organ they are getting the sound of the original "warts and all."

[arie v]

Hi,

I have worked on a number of Content organs, and have found that while they have adjustable parameters, they don't seem to do much. I have not come across one that had note by note volume levelling. I think in the last 4 or 5 years that they have brought out organs with multiple tonal suites.

As to what is available in terms of parameter adjustments, usually there is less flexebility than you imagine. Perhaps the builder that has the most parameters is Walker Technical, and their results are usually stunning. But there is a cost for that, and they prefer their voicer to do the voicing.

You can always contact the Content factory and maybe they will give you the tools change the parameters.

One other thing, I take it you don't like the Content mixtures. Mixtures are hard to do right, and a lot of digital Mixtures don't mesh well with their associated choruses. Unless you worked for a pipe builder you are not likely to get a much better result with doing some tinkering. Most digital mixtures are composite tone and are played through a single channel. This makes the mixtures sound harsh and grating to the ears.

Chances are you will not find everything in a single organ from anyone manufacturer.

But here is your chance, start up an organ company, hire some engineers, who will do exactly what you want. And then you might get your perfect instrument.

AV

[myorgan]

However, there are some things I cannot do and I wonder, is there a digital organ that gives the owner the ability to:

1. Adjust the chiff on each note.
2. Adjust the individual ranks in a mixture.
3. Adjust the timbre of a rank.

Additionally it would be nice to be able to:

1. Create a custom specification that could be changed on an individual stop basis.
2. Create a custom mixture.

Is there such a thing on the market?

I seem to recall John (jbird604) discussed how he was able to use the Dove software (with screenshots) to customize one of his organs. Let me see if I can find the thread.

Michael

[Melos Antropon]

Bill:

It's a little academic at this point, but Rodgers organs had adjustable chiff going back to the late seventies and early eighties. I do not know if they still do or not. The Rodgers Scarborough 750 I was titulaire of for about eight years had two chiff adjustments: "General" (whole organ) and "Flute Chiff". It was adjustable from barely audible all the way up to "like a xylophone".

Tony

[rjsilva]

It may be worthwhile to keep your eyes open for the (hopefully) upcoming commercial version of the Organteq physically modelled software.

I haven’t heard anything new about the commercial version, but I can say that in the free ‘teaser’ app the chiff is sometimes different from note to note and even consecutive plays of the same note. It’s obviously generated with some degree of randomness. And during the beta testing stage this aspect changed somewhat, and so it is definitely adjustable—though whether Modartt makes it adjustable to the end user remains to be seen.

[voet]

One of the reasons I like this forum is because there is such a wealth of collective knowledge. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

I did go back and replay the Physis videos that MarkS mentioned. I had seen them about a year ago but it was informative to have a second look at them. Clearly Physis appears to provide the capability to do much of what I would like to accomplish.

There are two additional items for my wish list that I forgot to mention initially.

1. I would like the ability to adjust the tuning of the celesting ranks. Physis does allow for this and gives some nice options having the beats increase as you go up the scale, or keep the rate of beating steady. This is a really nice capability. One thing I don't know is if they allow you to do this with any stop other than one intended as a celeste-like on an Italian Principal.

2. One thing that would really be a big plus for me is having swell pedals that realistically mimic swell boxes on a pipe organ. On the digital organs I have heard, closing the swell box is like turning down the volume on a radio. I would like the closed swell to sound like a closed swell on a pipe organ where the upper harmonics are more muted than the lower harmonics.

And, if they really want to get fancy, it would be nice to have different swell boxes. Some builders really have thick swell shades that really close off the sound, other shades are made from thinner material that allows more sound to escape. Also, can you have a "Vox in a Box? That might be nice as well. And, as long as I am dreaming here, it might be nice to assign some stops from an unenclosed division, like the Great, to a box.

Do any digital organs do this? It seems to me that with all of the research that has gone into Physis, they must have thought of this, but it is not mentioned in their videos.

[Admin]

1. I would like the ability to adjust the tuning of the celesting ranks. Physis does allow for this and gives some nice options having the beats increase as you go up the scale, or keep the rate of beating steady. This is a really nice capability. One thing I don't know is if they allow you to do this with any stop other than one intended as a celeste-like on an Italian Principal.

This should be possible with any instrument that allows note-by-note tuning, provided that the celeste rank is independent and not a two or more rank composite.

2. One thing that would really be a big plus for me is having swell pedals that realistically mimic swell boxes on a pipe organ. On the digital organs I have heard, closing the swell box is like turning down the volume on a radio. I would like the closed swell to sound like a closed swell on a pipe organ where the upper harmonics are more muted than the lower harmonics.

And, if they really want to get fancy, it would be nice to have different swell boxes. Some builders really have thick swell shades that really close off the sound, other shades are made from thinner material that allows more sound to escape.

Again, possible with Hauptwerk. It provides rank-by-rank, note-by-note adjustment of both amplitude and harmonic content for the expression pedals.

And, as long as I am dreaming here, it might be nice to assign some stops from an unenclosed division, like the Great, to a box.

Possible with Hauptwerk by creating a custom organ using a CODM.


My response to your questions is largely limited to Hauptwerk as I'm not familiar with the voicing capabilities of the well-known builders. It would be great if those having such knowledge would share it.

[myorgan]

Bill,

I found the thread to which I was referring: https://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?50419. In that thread, it discussed Johannus, Rodgers, Viscount, and Allen's voicing software and compares them. Granted, it probably doesn't help you with your Content, but it may provide at least a partial answer to your initial question.

Is there such a thing on the market?

Michael

[Dutchy]

Bill,

May be this vids from Viscount UK are also helpful (if you didn't find them already)
https://www.youtube.com/user/V1sc0un...able_polymer=1
https://viscountorgans.net/blog/

1. One thing I don't know is if they allow you to do this with any stop other than one intended as a celeste-like on an Italian Principal. I am not sure if it can be done from the organ itself. But when you have the Editor software (I have) it is possible to change the pitch of every single note of every single stop. So, I think it can be done ie lower the pitch of a 4' flute and play it agianst a 4'prestant, then you have a fully custimizable 'celeste' effect.
(But why should you do that? What do you want to accomplish?)

2. I would like the closed swell to sound like a closed swell on a pipe organ where the upper harmonics are more muted than the lower harmonics. my Physis organ definitely does not have this feature. It's a shame! [Luckily i mainly play baroque music so i don't need it so much].

And, if they really want to get fancy, it would be nice to have different swell boxes. It.s a pity, Physis (Sonus) don't have this feature.

And, as long as I am dreaming here, it might be nice to assign some stops from an unenclosed division, like the Great, to a box.I'm not sure what you want here. With Editor software you can move or copy voices from any stop or division to any other stop or division. Is that what you want?

It seems to me that with all of the research that has gone into Physis, they must have thought of this, Fully agree. But nevertheless some of these features are not implemented.

Btw, may be when you have such specific questions, maybe it is a good idea to send a mail to a Viscount seller or the Company itself (and also keep posting your questions here, of course)

Glad if this helps you, Grtz, D.

[MarkS]

1. One thing I don't know is if they allow you to do this with any stop other than one intended as a celeste-like on an Italian Principal. I am not sure if it can be done from the organ itself. But when you have the Editor software (I have) it is possible to change the pitch of every single note of every single stop. So, I think it can be done ie lower the pitch of a 4' flute and play it agianst a 4'prestant, then you have a fully custimizable 'celeste' effect.
(But why should you do that? What do you want to accomplish?)

One could create a "Voce Umana" for Frescobaldi using two identical diapasons (perhaps 16') and detuning.

Since Viscount is in Italy they may have thought of it.