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Allen 301B Organ Stops on Swell don't play--except Voix Celeste (certain notes)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by John Vanderlee View Post
    Are those cards ones that came with the organ? Am I correct to believe that not all cards work in all models?
    John, the answers are: Yes, and yes. Thank you for not overlooking the obvious, though. The topic is well-covered in the Allen Tone Card thread: https://www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?4206.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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    • #47
      Allen 301B Card Reader Problems

      John & all,
      Yes-- the tone cards I have came with the organ. Problem was lights burned out in Card Reader/then replaced w/LED kit by Batteries Plus guy (at my request) that were the wrong size bulbs (per Michael M./TN above). And apparently ultimately now the erratic voltage readings/output to CR (barely touch the adjustment knob w/fluctuations of 2-6, 6-12 volts). Tried cleaning pot w/WD 40 as suggested by Mike-- in process took pot apart & finished ruining it after cleaning it (graphite circle was different color--dark/light faded spots & lightly sprayed/spread WD 40 w/screw driver-- & all then looked same shade color). However, after reassembled it, only put out about 1 volt--tops!
      Ordered new 200 Ohm pot for whopping $7 w/free shipping off Amazon. Due in today (Monday). Will let all know outcome. Hopefully w/everyone's help here on the Forum & Mike M./TN's patience & "hand holding" thru all of my organ issues (including correctly installing right size LED bulbs), I'm beginning to get excited that I'll have a fully properly functioning 40+ year old Allen organ in my house for my practice & enjoyment. Yea!!
      Was given organ (free) & all for <$1,000 repairs (majority--almost $700 for my one/only service call initially from long time Rodgers Tech/friend Bill--mostly his "Trip Charge" from Dallas). While Allen factory Tech/Houston wanted to charge me $5,100+ & waited months to respond to repair quote request.

      P.S. I finally sought out HELP from my IR Tech friend here at work to right side my Organ attachment. Yea!! Now my granddaughters' pics & music won't fall down. LOL!!

      Attached Files

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      • #48
        James,

        Thanks for the update. One thing you didn't mention was the fellow you hired to install the first set op LEDs drilled out all the holes so the new LEDs would fit. There was no wall left between the holds-just a kerf lengthwise so any one LED would light all the photo transistors. I had to install a new reader assy. to fix this.

        Michael

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        • #49
          John,
          Yes-- tone cards came w/organ. Have only 26 cards-- but most are stamped/copyrighted from Allen organ company "1971" (organ was built Sept 1977 per Allen Organ Co.). A few cards are stamped 1982, & 1 is stamped 1985 (Spanish Trumpet), red card & slightly thicker/stiffer than other cards. For Spanish Trumpet-- sounds more like an Oboe or small reed stop. Wanted a big solo reed, e.g. Trompette Harmonique, State Trumpet, Trumpet En Chamade-- & Spanish Trumpet is nothing close. Disappointing... Chimes (not even close to a "chime" sound). Ugh!
          James

          - - - Updated - - -

          Mike M.
          Correct... you had to replace the drilled out CR (w/too big holes) with another, that you happened to have. Thankfully!

          James

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          • #50
            The 1985 Spanish Trumpet card might not be a MOS card, as MOS organs were only built up until about 1983. If it's an ADC card, that explains why it doesn't sound like a Spanish Trumpet. The ADC cards do not read correctly in a MOS organ. But, Allen continued to sell cards that were specifically punched for MOS organs right up until recently, so it might be a MOS card, even with a date of 1985 on it, I suppose. But I know that the MOS Spanish Trumpet would not be disappointing! It's a great big bright trumpet that will peel paint.

            One of our resident card experts might be able to tell you how to ascertain which kind of card it is. There is a difference in the pattern of holes, but I'm not up on that enough to tell you what to look for.
            John
            ----------
            Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
            Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
            Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
            Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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            • #51
              It is not difficult to decide which type of Tone Card one is. Those for MOS organs have 16 pairs of "8" and "9" punches along the bottom of the card, with "9" punches beginning in column 6 and spaced every third column through column 51 and "8" punches beginning in column 7 and spaced every third column through column 52. Cards for ADC organs have a series of 33 "4" punches beginning in column 21 and ending in column 53. The ADC cards will have some punches in the "8" and "9" rows, but not in the pattern found in MOS cards, and the MOS cards may have occasional punches in the "4" row, but not the continuous series found in the ADC cards. There are other ways to differentiate between the 2 types of cards, but the above is the most obvious and easiest.

              David

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              • #52
                There's a possibility that the Spanish Trumpet is one of the newer red plastic MOS cards. If it is, it will probably have a "MOS" printed near the lower right corner.
                As for why it doesn't sound correct: It should be a full volume MOS reed (-62 to +63). If the light or sensors for row 6 and 5 (maybe even 4) are not working (or blocked), all of your cards will be too quiet and sound weird.
                Row 6 is a minus sign. If that is missing your won't be getting any negative waveform points. That would make most cards sound strange (there are some cards with only positive points that would sound fine if this was the only problem).
                Row 5 is the 32s place (binary). So any points that would occur between 32 and 63 would get put somewhere between 0 and 31. That would half the volume (approximately) of most tone cards. If this is the only blocked punch then any negative points would become extreme and all cards would sound strange.
                Make sure that the entire hole between the LEDs and a photoresistor is clean. (I had gunk right up against the photoresistor.)

                Edit: The Chime card should produce a pretty good chime sound (that is two octaves too high) with the percussion tab selected and the sustain knob set correctly.
                Last edited by samibe; 07-11-2018, 12:22 PM.
                Sam
                Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
                Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

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                • #53
                  Card Reader Power Supply Installation-- Allen 301B (1977)

                  David & Samibe,
                  Thanks for the helpful info! Your explanations of identifying cards (e.g. Spanish Trumpet is red/thicker card, printed by Allen1985) of why cards sound approx. half their volume and/or strange could be very well the case.
                  "As for why it doesn't sound correct: It should be a full volume MOS reed (-62 to +63). If the light or sensors for row 6 and 5 (maybe even 4) are not working (or blocked), all of your cards will be too quiet and sound weird.
                  Row 6 is a minus sign. If that is missing your won't be getting any negative waveform points. That would make most cards sound strange..."

                  As such, I decided to revert to having Mike M./TN (mailed CR back this morning) replace my new LED's with the "Standard" bulbs to see if I get better Card Reader results of both their normal volume (to be able to be used w/other organ stops), and truer/more realistic sounds indicated on cards, e.g. Chimes, Spanish Trumpet, Harpsichord, etc. I had noticed all 10 LED's were lit from back of organ, but definitely 2 or 3 bulbs around mid area didn't have same brightness as other bulbs when looking at them at same angle, e.g when I'd look higher up down into/at bulbs-- could could see those LED's were lit as well, but couldn't prove it when looking same lower horizontal angle from back.
                  Thanks to all-- especially Mike M./TN, who has patiently walked me through this whole restoration organ process, including hours on the phone w/me & sending organ pics of various parts back/forth.

                  James

                  P.S. The Card Reader back to original standard bulbs will complete my organ "restoration" & be back to what it was 40+ years ago. Not the newest latest/greatest organ by far, but plays/sounds pretty darn good now as a practice organ in my home!!

                  Click image for larger version

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                  • #54
                    David (or John),
                    Curious-- how did you get your pic to reflect on your profile posts? I have mine saved in my profile/reflected there, but the little Avatar under Pianississmo is just a square conglomeration of purple as seen on my posts.
                    Thanks!

                    James

                    My pic as reflected in Organ Forum's Profile-- but doesn't show up on my posts:

                    https://www.organforum.com/forums/cu...pic82784_3.gif

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                    • #55
                      Your profile picture appears in your profile. Your avatar picture appears in your posts. Go to your Settings and choose Edit Avatar.
                      -Admin

                      Allen 965
                      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                      Hauptwerk 4.2

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                      • #56
                        Thanks Admin!!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by samibe View Post
                          There's a possibility that the Spanish Trumpet is one of the newer red plastic MOS cards. If it is, it will probably have a "MOS" printed near the lower right corner.
                          I've looked at the photos on the Allen Tone Card thread and found these photos may help:
                          I hope that helps tell the difference between the cards by looking at the bottom 2 rows of punches (or lack thereof).

                          Michael
                          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                          • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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                          • #58
                            Thanks Michael! I’ll definitely check out these web links!
                            James ��

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                            • #59
                              Post regarding value of this and other Allen models moved to new thread here:
                              https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...-7000-and-301B
                              -Admin

                              Allen 965
                              Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                              Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                              Hauptwerk 4.2

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                All,
                                FYI— after Michael M./TN replaced my incorrectly soldered in LED over sized bulbs installed by Batteries Plus Tech— just trying to make work what he was given (Harrison LED Kit), even with different/right size holes in bulb board w/proper size LED bulbs/properly installed by Mike, results of sounds of various cards wasn’t great. Cards weren’t realistic at all— volume was 50% of other organ’s stops, —flutes sounded like weak strings.
                                Mike then offered to replace LED bulbs w/standard spec’d bulbs. When I received Card Reader back 2nd time with standard bulb installation, Mike suggested setting CR volts to 7 (mfr recommends anywhere 6-8 volts). Still wasn’t thrilled w/sounds—still weak volume, not realistic to tone indicated on cards(s), & had to insert tone cards very slowly/deliberately, 2-3 times before getting any sound.
                                All this said... when I was ready to give up on ever having a CR that I’d have any interest in using, decided to make one LAST effort w/CR. So set CR volts at 1/2 increments, i.e. 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, & 8 volts.
                                It wasn’t until I set my CR volt reading to full 8 volts that —PRESTO!!! Noticeable difference discovered! Cards were read usually 1st time, and sound was 1) normal volume (could use other organ stops w/CR, & 2) more realistic sounds noted on tone card, e g flutes, harpsichord, Larigot. But am still disappointed in Spanish Trumpet, or other such big reeds. Sound more like Oboe. Certainly not a big solo reed! Oh well, at least can use some of my tone cards as intended!! ��

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