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What model Allen organ is this?

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  • What model Allen organ is this?

    I saw this and asked the owner what model it is and they came back with ‘B-3 2948’. I’m not especially knowledgable about Allen organ models but that doesn’t seem right to me (unless it’s an old analog?). And I feel bad asking again because I’m pretty sure it wasn’t easy for this person to figure out even that much.

    Does anyone know?

    https://pennstate.craigslist.org/msg/6588986519.html
    Viscount C400 3-manual
    8 channels + 2 reverb channels (w/ Lexicon MX200)
    Klipsch RSX-3 speakers and Klipsch Ultra 5.1 subwoofers

  • #2
    Allen definitely had model numbers like this for the vacuum tube models; when the models became transistorized, they put a "T" in front of the model number, and thus we have TC-1, TC-4, etc. The oscillators for this organ might even be in remote racks rather than in the console.

    The fact that it incorporates couplers means it probably just as 8 ft manual stops, with various couplers to get different pitch registers. This is similar to early Conn organs. It means you really can't register say, an 8 ft. Diapason with a 4 ft. Flute unless you get the two voices from different manuals. The pedals might just have 16 ft stops, or 16 ft. and 8 ft..

    If it does use external racks for the oscillators, I would suggest that it is not a very desirable organ--the racks are about the size of a refrigerator.

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    • #3
      Thanks :) And thanks for the extra info about how the tube models worked.

      $1500 is probably extremely ambitious then. I’d like to hear an old tube organ but it’s much too far for me to go just to listen.
      Viscount C400 3-manual
      8 channels + 2 reverb channels (w/ Lexicon MX200)
      Klipsch RSX-3 speakers and Klipsch Ultra 5.1 subwoofers

      Comment


      • #4
        It'd be worth more for salvage (then $0.0, I mean) I've sold the tubes on *Bay, and the amps may have the desirable 6L6 output tubes.
        Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by toodles View Post
          Allen definitely had model numbers like this for the vacuum tube models; when the models became transistorized, they put a "T" in front of the model number, and thus we have TC-1, TC-4, etc. The oscillators for this organ might even be in remote racks rather than in the console.

          The fact that it incorporates couplers means it probably just as 8 ft manual stops, with various couplers to get different pitch registers. This is similar to early Conn organs. It means you really can't register say, an 8 ft. Diapason with a 4 ft. Flute unless you get the two voices from different manuals. The pedals might just have 16 ft stops, or 16 ft. and 8 ft..

          If it does use external racks for the oscillators, I would suggest that it is not a very desirable organ--the racks are about the size of a refrigerator.
          Right. The B-3 had *three* external racks of the size you mentioned. One for Swell 8', one for Great 8', one for Pedal 16'- plus those huge Gyros.

          Bill

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually two racks, swell and pedal on one rack, great on the other. 7 6SN7 tubes per oscillator chassis, 13 chassis'.
            60 watt amps used 4 6L6's, 70 and 90 watt amps used 2 6550's. A tube collectors dream!
            Funny how they don't mention the racks in the ad. :-)

            td
            Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

            Comment


            • #7
              And they sounded like a Conn, too.

              Except for that Clarinet on the Great. According to an Allen salesperson the Clarinet had a center-tapped coil on each note. It was amazing.

              Comment


              • #8
                It's funny how some people get fixated on the unimportant, such as the salesman touting a center-tapped coil on each note.

                That a coil is, or is not, center-tapped is not particularly noteworthy. A center tap is just a single wire connection. What is unique, of course, is a separate coil and thus filter for each note. Allen did this for most of their analog reed stops, and it allows for perfect scaling and note-by-note voicing. It is the separate filter that is noteworthy, not the coil itself.

                Reminded me of an Allen salesman who insisted that a power amp for an organ needed to have a toroidal tranformer in its power supply to be adequate for organ use. Utter nonsense--the style of transformer in its power supply has no impact on whether or not it is suitable for organ use. Other design characteristics of the amp govern suitability for organ use.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                  Actually two racks, swell and pedal on one rack, great on the other. 7 6SN7 tubes per oscillator chassis, 13 chassis'.
                  60 watt amps used 4 6L6's, 70 and 90 watt amps used 2 6550's. A tube collectors dream!
                  Funny how they don't mention the racks in the ad. :-)

                  td
                  That's what I get for trusting my memory. :-)
                  Does anyone remember the self-contained tube Allen- I want to say B-2 but I'm prolly wrong about that too- which had four "Unit" stops (diap, flute etc) then the various couplers on each manual? I played one 50 years ago. Not too bad, especially since the only self-contained classical transistor organ, the T-12A, was only flutes. I wonder how many of them they sold...

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                  Actually two racks, swell and pedal on one rack, great on the other. 7 6SN7 tubes per oscillator chassis, 13 chassis'.
                  60 watt amps used 4 6L6's, 70 and 90 watt amps used 2 6550's. A tube collectors dream!
                  Funny how they don't mention the racks in the ad. :-)

                  td
                  Dave, I remember Allen saying that they could add 'racks' almost without limit- one could give Great 4' stops, another could give Swell 4' stops, another for Choir 8' stops, another for celestes, yadda yadda. That's why I thought the Swell and Pedal were separate racks. SO- if you got the extra "Swell 4' stops" rack, would it include, say, Pedal 8' stops? Really curious here.
                  R, Bill

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                  • #10
                    The B & W series service manual simply say "other models" could have from 1 to 4 racks, no model numbers given.

                    The C1 and C3 organs had self contained generators for flutes and diapasons. Other voices were synthesized using the crank and slide key contacts. Perhaps one of those is what you played.

                    td
                    Servicing electronic organs since 1969.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tucsondave View Post
                      The B & W series service manual simply say "other models" could have from 1 to 4 racks, no model numbers given.

                      The C1 and C3 organs had self contained generators for flutes and diapasons. Other voices were synthesized using the crank and slide key contacts. Perhaps one of those is what you played.

                      td
                      No, Dave, this particular Allen was self-contained like the S-12, including a gyro, but it had four 'general' stops- "unit diapason", "unit flute", "unit viola" and "unit dulciana" IIRC. The swell could key them at 4? pitches, the pedal at 3?, and the great at everything from 16' to 1'. There were some combination stops also.
                      Thinking more about it, I believe it was a model B-10 or B-20. Nice organ for tube-organ days!

                      According to Bob Eby's book (1950), there was no real limit to how many racks Allen could use with a big tube organ... didn't the FPC Stamford biggie have 15 or 20?!

                      R, Bill

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                      • #12
                        The Stamford organ was claimed to have thirty generators. According to the above-mentioned salesperson, one set was dedicated to producing chiff.

                        William H. Barnes wrote favorably of it in his book.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MarkS View Post
                          The Stamford organ was claimed to have thirty generators. According to the above-mentioned salesperson, one set was dedicated to producing chiff.

                          William H. Barnes wrote favorably of it in his book.
                          30? Wow! I saw the organ in the mid-70s but by then the choir division, IIRC, had been changed to digital. The Fanwood Rodgers had 20 generators, and the Tenth Pres Allen had 26, so the Stamford organ *was* huge. I guess they heated the church with heat captured from all those tube filaments :-)

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by beel m View Post
                          No, Dave, this particular Allen was self-contained like the S-12, including a gyro, but it had four 'general' stops- "unit diapason", "unit flute", "unit viola" and "unit dulciana" IIRC. The swell could key them at 4? pitches, the pedal at 3?, and the great at everything from 16' to 1'. There were some combination stops also.
                          Thinking more about it, I believe it was a model B-10 or B-20. Nice organ for tube-organ days!

                          R, Bill
                          Mystery solved! It was a model C-2, mentioned in Jerome M's book, page 37. That's the one I played 50 years ago.

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                          • #14
                            Since the first Allen I ever played was a W-5S, I always find it interesting to read more about these large old analog tube instruments. I found my 1959 edition of Barnes and was fascinated to see how much he wrote about the Stamford (and similar) instruments, quoting an article he wrote for the April, 1958 edition of The Diapason. He describes the "nearly 100" speakers, including 9 stereo pairs of Gyrophonic Projectors. Reference is made to similar large size Allens at Second Congregational Church in Waterbury, CT, and North Austin Lutheran Church in Chicago.
                            Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Steinway AR Duo-Art 7' grand piano, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico grand piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI, Allen MADC-2110.

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                            • #15
                              North Austin Lutheran's Allen was three manuals with twenty-four claimed generators and a troublesome Reisner-type remote combination action. It was destroyed by fire in 1985. The above-mentioned salesperson said that the repair technicians missed it...

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