A Cautionary Tale

[voet]

My recent experience purchasing a used instrument has made me aware of the importance of good dealer support.

I purchased a European manufactured instrument that was made about 12 years ago. The instrument is generally in good working order and I do like sound. However there are a couple of relatively minor issues that have become very frustrating for me.

First, there are four low wattage bulbs, two each for the music rack and pedal that I wanted to replace because three of them were burned out. I went to my local sources for a light bulb only to find out that the base used in these bulbs is not available in the United States. I contacted the manufacturer to see if they could supply replacements. They informed me that they could for a cost of € 2,00 each. I would not have minded paying that, but they said the shipping would be € 85,00! I decided to mount puck lights on the organ instead. They actually give much better light, and I will not have to worry about getting future replacement bulbs.

The second issue I have had to deal with is a burned out light in one of the lighted drawknobs. I again contacted the manufacturer and was told that the drawknobs were supplied by Syndyne. I contacted Syndyne, but they will not sell to private individuals, so my next step was to contact the U. S. Distributor per the advice of the manufacturer. They said the bulbs are $4.50 each with a minimum $25 order. I said I would take 12 bulbs and asked how they wanted to arrange payment. Nearly a week later I have not heard, so I have sent the email again requesting an answer.

I realize that these are probably small irritating issues for these companies, but support as an important part of the business transaction, in my view. Each time I tried to get support, it has required multiple attempts on my part to remind the person that "I still have not had a reply to the email I sent you last week." I really do not want to have to go through this much trouble to get support.

In the mean time, if any of you know of a source that will sell an individual a light bulb for an old style lighted drawknob, I would appreciate it.

[toodles]

This link has the Syndyne Catalog: http://www.logosfoundation.org/instr..._Catalogue.pdf

Page 4-2 of the catalog (56 of 72 pages) has the lighted drawknob and specs. It lists the bulb as an ANSI 1705. Here are 2 links to places that sell it:

http://www.jacksonelectricsupply.com...ase_p/1705.htm
https://www.elliottelectronicsupply....ire-leads.html

I believe Syndyne solders wire leads to the bulb for use in the drawknob mechanism, so you might have to do that. You might also need to insulate one of the wires so it doesn't short to the other.

[voet]

Toodles, you are always a fount of knowledge. Thank you for your assistance. It is interesting that I am being offered these bulbs from the U.S. Distributor for 10 times the cost from these suppliers.

[toodles]

The extra cost is probably because Syndyne adds the wires and marks them up to cover their labor, and then the distributor makes a profit on top of that markup. Adding the wire makes it an "assembly" not a purchased part. That's the nature of manufacturing.

Note that the bulbs might also be a plug-in bi-pin type for the same general bulb spec--try a gentle pull on the burned out bulb to see if it unplugs. If so, you'll have to search for the equivalent bi-pin bulb spec.

[jbird604]

If you have the knob-head itself removed, take a pic of the shaft with bulb protruding. That should show whether it is the commonly-found lamp with 6" solder leads, or the newer socketed lamp. As I recall, the socketed lamps are a mini-wedge style, but I don't have the type number at hand.

Rodgers organs starting way back in the 70's and going up to only about 10 or 12 years ago used the lamp with the long leads. Then they switched to the socketed lamp. The drawknobs look pretty much the same from the outside, but the bulbs are completely different.

We used to order the long-lead drawknob lamps from Rodgers, until the ordering process became too complicated (that's a long story). Now I get them directly from Syndyne for a lot less money. A friend of mine in the business has said that he manufactures his own long-lead lamps by buying the #1705 lamps, then soldering leads to the pins. I tried that a couple times but found it extremely tedious and difficult. Gave up and ordered them already made, though they cost 10 times as much!

Your story does underline the value of having support for your organ. Unfortunately, almost any purchase of an organ from outside the dealer network may result in this kind of difficulty. Even with my 30+ years of association with Allen, I can't order any items that are classified as "dealer" items, so I've often turned to third-party sources and/or creative engineering.

Come to think of it, we organists and organ lovers just have to be jacks of all trades -- not only musicians, but engineers, techs, wood craftsmen, and so on! So it has always been. Players of pipe organs hundreds of years ago had to do their own tuning and repairs, often right before playing a service or concert.

[voet]

Many thanks

The collective knowledge of the Organ Forum comes through again. Thank you all for your help on this.

Here is a picture of the light that I took out of the draw knob. Content told me to request "LDK old style lamp with leads assembly." I suspect that the new ones are LEDs. The ones on my organ generate a bit of warmth after they are on for a bit. Printed on the bulb is 14V80mA. To remove the bulb, i had to use a tiny allen wrench to losen the screw under the draw knob. The light just snaps into what looks like a brass straw with two slots directly across from one another. I removed a working bulb from the Mono Bass draw knob, which I do not use and put it into the Great 4' Octave which had burned out. It is now working. I want to order a bunch of these to have on hand.

[ahlborn]

These should be:

https://www.--------/itm/10-x-14V-80...MAAOSw44BYWTnv

shipping costs are very reasonable

[Innocentti]

Alternatively:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CEC-1-12W-1...b/253795713516

[don60]

Too late now, but the pedalboard lamps were probably an E14 base, which is readily available on Amazon if one knows what to look for. I buy them by the case for my Johannus customers.

[tucsondave]

"Printed on the bulb is 14V80mA."
That's a #73 lamp available at an automotive supply.

td

[voet]

Thanks, TucsonDave. I appreciate the tip.

Bill

[janvds]

Hi Bill,

2 Euros is not at all unreasonable for the replacement bulbs. However 85 Euros is simply outrageous.

It wouldn't at all surprise me if the bulbs are identical to those used by Johannus for many years. BTW, I know of about 6 instances here in Ontario where the Johannus factory has readily shipped replacement light bulbs, memory lock keys, etc. at no cost to Johannus organ owners in remote areas of Ontario. For local customers here in Ontario, I'm fortunate to have a specialty lighting store nearby that has the socket base adapter in stock, so the bulbs can be easily replaced with those available locally.

[myorgan]

My recent experience purchasing a used instrument has made me aware of the importance of good dealer support.

I purchased a European manufactured instrument that was made about 12 years ago. The instrument is generally in good working order and I do like sound. However there are a couple of relatively minor issues that have become very frustrating for me.

Voet,

I've been following this thread for a few days now, and feel led to contribute to the "cautionary tale." What I'm about to say isn't a criticism, but it is borne of being on this Forum for over a decade. And my cautionary tale is this: Should the dealer fall though (which is often the case for me), do nothing until one posts the question on the Forum, and subsequently waits for the answers to roll in. I don't know how many times I've attempted to solve an issue and getting "in too deep" before I posted on the Forum, and it has always been to my detriment.

Thanks, all, for being part of the Forum and providing such a valuable resource for all of us to follow. And thanks, Voet, for sticking yourself out there and posting the question in the first place.

Michael

[voet]

Michael,

I am constantly struck by the generous spirit of the members of this forum. I had a number of private messages from people in addition to posts. i feel so indebted to the many people who have helped me with their depth of knowledge.

At first I was hesitant to say much, because I do not want to disparage any business. I also wanted to give them time to respond to my questions. That being said, I would be very reluctant to purchase a new organ from the U. S. distributor for the brand I own. I really like the organ, but I have had to make multiple requests to have basic questions answered. My last email still has not been answered, even after sending it a second time. Fortunately, I now have alternatives that do not depend on them thanks to the generous help I have received on this forum.

[don60]

Johannus is much more responsive.