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Addition of Toe Studs

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  • Addition of Toe Studs

    Hi Folks! I’m new to the Organ Forum, and also recently acquired a gently used Allen CF-2a. The organ is in perfect working condition and sounds great and looks brand new. It has 5 general pistons, with 2 memories.

    Is it possible to add toe studs to trigger the general pistons? Is this something I could do myself? Being a retired professional church musician, I really miss having toe studs when practicing. I can make do with the pistons, but sometimes your hands are just tied up.

    Thanks,
    Ken
    Home: Practice organ - Allen CF-2a
    Church: Depends on where I’m substituting ;-)

  • #2
    Yes, it should be possible. I bought some used toe studs from a local organ builder for $10 each. They can be wired directly to the contacts for the existing General Pistons so that either might complete the circuit to the Combination Action.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by KCAiken View Post
      Is it possible to add toe studs to trigger the general pistons? Is this something I could do myself? Being a retired professional church musician, I really miss having toe studs when practicing. I can make do with the pistons, but sometimes your hands are just tied up.
      Ken,

      I feel your pain! Therefore, I started a thread on the topic 5 years ago. You can view the information I provided here: www.organforum.com/forums/showthread.php?18623-Allen-ADC-4300DKC-Modification-Updates&p=326865&viewfull=1#post326865. I do hope that helps provide the information you need. Complete with pictures!:-B

      Welcome to the Forum. I hope you continue participating here long after you have updated your organ.

      Michael
      Last edited by myorgan; 08-03-2018, 12:42 PM. Reason: Fix Link
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks Leiesturm! I will start looking for toe studs.
        Ken
        Home: Practice organ - Allen CF-2a
        Church: Depends on where I’m substituting ;-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Michael,
          Thanks so much for the link to your previous post. You did an exceptionally nice job adding those to your Allen, as they look like they’ve always been there. I’ll have to do some investigative poking around inside the console, and see if I can find the wires from the general pistons.

          Ken
          Home: Practice organ - Allen CF-2a
          Church: Depends on where I’m substituting ;-)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KCAiken View Post
            I’ll have to do some investigative poking around inside the console, and see if I can find the wires from the general pistons.
            Ken,

            No need. I ran the wires from the toe studs, and connected them to the piston rail actions I wanted to duplicate. If there's a piston, you can probably duplicate it on a toe stud. I am not sure it will work with your Allen CF-2a, but it worked on my ADC-era organ. I hope that helps.

            In my case, I made sure I had enough space behind where the toe studs will be located in order to run the wires (no logic cards, amplifiers, transformers, etc.). I will also summon another expert on the Forum who may be more familiar with your organ, but I believe the principles should be the same across product lines.

            Michael
            Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
            • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
            • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
            • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks, Michael! I was hoping it might be a simple fix.
              Ken
              Home: Practice organ - Allen CF-2a
              Church: Depends on where I’m substituting ;-)

              Comment


              • #8
                In every Allen I've ever serviced, a piston is just a simple normally-open spring-loaded switch ("momentary contact" is the technical term). That being the case, you can easily add a toe piston to duplicate any piston by simply running a thin two-conductor wire from the two terminals on the piston to the terminals on your toe stud.

                The only complications involve routing the wires so that they don't show anywhere, and so they are safely out of the way and neatly tied up. The wires need to be very small and very neatly placed because the space behind the piston rail maybe quite crowded and small. If you are good at using common tools and doing simple wiring you shouldn't have any trouble.
                John
                ----------
                *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
                  ...you can easily add a toe piston to duplicate any piston by simply running a thin two-conductor wire from the two terminals on the piston to the terminals on your toe stud.

                  The only complications involve routing the wires so that they don't show anywhere, and so they are safely out of the way and neatly tied up. The wires need to be very small and very neatly placed because the space behind the piston rail maybe quite crowded and small. If you are good at using common tools and doing simple wiring you shouldn't have any trouble.
                  John,

                  Thank you for the excellent advice, and encouraging words. It's been a while since I completed my project, but I don't remember it being too daunting. I'll re-read my thread, and see if I have anything else to add. I know my wires were probably a bit too big, but I think that was because I used automotive wire from the nearest auto supply store (now out of business), but I'm sure you can find something.

                  Thanks again, John.

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Interested in this, just don’t know what sort of face I’ll get from my old-school Allen technician when I ask him to do it!!
                    On my Quantum, I don’t want to add studs, rather I want to simply use three of them to serve different functions. I want to make three of them correspond with coupler thumb pistons. In the Quantum system, is it going to upset the organ system if it picks up that the toe studs are not doing their proper function and that wires are going from the thumb pistons to the toe pistons? Bad idea or perfectly fine?
                    Personal organs - (1) Allen custom Heritage III 58-Q (Q345); (2) Allen ADC 6300A (both in the drawknob console)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Possibly not do-able on an Allen with MN system (MDS and later), as all the pistons and toe studs are in a matrix of some sort, communicating with the MN board via a network of ribbon cables.

                      I simply don't know, as I have never looked into how the toe studs are wired on a modern Allen. If the stud has nothing but a pair of wires coming out, and they don't daisy chain with another toe stud, you can probably change the function by paralleling with an existing piston. But the studs may be wired together differently. Use caution!
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You’re always a source of great knowledge John, thank you!
                        Personal organs - (1) Allen custom Heritage III 58-Q (Q345); (2) Allen ADC 6300A (both in the drawknob console)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can't say how exactly this is done on a Quantum organ, but on my home churches Q325 I had the dealer tech install a thumb piston under the Great manual to duplicate the toe stud for the Zimbelstern. This was soon after we got the organ, and I was not there when he did the job, so I don't know how involved it was to do. I don't think it was that big of a deal though.

                          We tend to use the Zimbelstern more than others do I suppose, so having it handy on a piston as well as the toe stud is useful. Allen seems to have put the toe stud for that too high up on the front to make hitting it convenient for regular use.
                          Regards, Larry

                          At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), US-1, EL-25 ( Chopped ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755. 1919 Wangerin 2/7 pipe organ.

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                          • #14
                            Zimbelstern is typically an option that Allen has prepared for--I had it added to an MDS-38. If there is already a Zimbelstern toe stud, then the piston probably is just wired in parallel with it.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Larrytow View Post
                              I can't say how exactly this is done on a Quantum organ, but on my home churches Q325 I had the dealer tech install a thumb piston under the Great manual to duplicate the toe stud for the Zimbelstern. This was soon after we got the organ, and I was not there when he did the job, so I don't know how involved it was to do. I don't think it was that big of a deal though.

                              We tend to use the Zimbelstern more than others do I suppose, so having it handy on a piston as well as the toe stud is useful. Allen seems to have put the toe stud for that too high up on the front to make hitting it convenient for regular use.
                              Thanks for sharing, great to know Larry!
                              Personal organs - (1) Allen custom Heritage III 58-Q (Q345); (2) Allen ADC 6300A (both in the drawknob console)

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