Allen Organ 203-C 1978 Digital 32 2 (MOS-1)

[paul2169]

Allen Organ 203-C 1978 Digital 32 2 (MOS-1)

Some questions:

1) this model has a dual memory system with no key. Is key needed to set pistons (set on Memory "A" now)? I'm unable to set pistons.

2) where is the battery located for the memory system?

3) the alterable voices do not keep after the organ is shut off? Battery problem?

4) how does one gain access to the top part of the organ with hinges in the back?

5) I would like to add reverb and need detailed instructions.

6) Getting rid off the 32A, 32B, 16-1 and 32SG speakers. What speakers would you suggest for practice instrument?

Thank you for your help!

Paul

[jbird604]

(1) No, the key is not needed to set pistons. It is only used to switch between the A and B memories, and then removed. So that's not why you can't set pistons. Make sure the circuit breaker toggle switch on the Capture Power Supply is not turned off or tripped.

(2) The Double Memory (DM) capture system went through several versions using several different battery packs. As old as your organ is, you may have a DM-1 or DM-2, which have a black metal memory supply cage somewhere in the console. This little cage contains a set of four Ni-Cad cells (ether D or C size) which are kept charged by the charging circuit in the same cage. If the batteries are completely discharged and ruined, the DM board may not work properly or not at all. So you need to at least disconnect the battery to see if that is the trouble. The battery has its own wire on the three-screw terminal strip outside the battery cage. Remove the wire (I think it's red) and then see if you can set pistons. If not, there is something else wrong.

(3) Alterable voices are not held in memory on MOS organs. You must re-program each time you turn on the organ.

(4) There are two screws, usually underneath the keydesk and at the left and right sides, near the edge, which go through a small steel bracket. Removing these will allow the entire top of the console to tilt backwards, revealing the keys, stop switches, and other stuff in there.

(5) It's complicated to add reverb to a MOS organ because the signal level and impedances do not match modern equipment. Harrison Labs can sell you some little adapters that make it possible to feed the signal through a regular reverb unit such as the Nanoverb.

(6) Speakers for such a system need to be wide-range and capable of handling sufficient power. If you don't play it really loud, you can use decent quality home stereo speakers. An organ sounds best with real organ speakers, such as Allen HC-15 or HC-12 speakers, but these are large and heavy and not easy to find. Good quality pro-sound speakers with 15" woofers and a decent tweeter will do the job. I have bought good ones from various online suppliers such as Newark or Parts-Express. Some good old Advent speakers or even the better "Optimus" speakers from Radio Shack might be found in a thrift store for not much money, and would sound pretty good with an Allen organ as long as you don't overload them.

[Larrytow]

Hi Paul,

I'm not absolutely sure on all this, having never been inside a 203-C, but I think it is all correct.

1, No, you do not need to have the key to set the pistons. Of course, you can only set the A side without it. You set what you want on the stoptabs, and then push and hold the Set piston, and then push the piston you want to set. Then release both of them.

I'll look though my stash of organ keys here and see if I can figure out what lock / key # Allen used for the memory lock in that era. Not sure I will be able to figure it out though, as most of that collection is not labeled too well.

2, The batteries for the memory system will likely be in a separate power supply unit for it. It should have four D cell size NiCad batteries in it. They are likely worn out by now and need replacing. In the C console ( Contemporary ), I am not sure just where they may have located it. It will be a metal box about 5" square.

3, You are not having a problem with the Alterables. It is normal for them not to be retained after you power off the console.

4, I'll let someone else take care of this one. I've never had a Contemporary style console open.

5, Adding reverb to these is quite possible, and improves the sound in a home installation very much. There are lots of methods one can use, so I won't go into it too far here. Probably best for you to decide what reverb unit(s) you want to use first. On MOS Allen's I like to use Alessis Nanoverbs, but others here use different ones with good results too.

6, Allen HC ( 10, 12, 14, or 15 - depending on how many channels your organ has ) speakers will work very well with that organ. I set up a 301B with those, and it sounded wonderful. Those speakers can have some issues if you are going to look for used ones. Foam surround rot mainly, but that is quite fixable if you are at all handy.

The photos are of a 301-B, but you should have the same stuff inside yours.

[paul2169]

Hi, John,

Thank you for your reply.

1) I found the memory key screwed to the inside top of the console but no cabinet lock key.

4) I couldn't have discovered the key without your instructions to open the top of the console!!!

2) the red battery wire was removed and I was able to set the pistons. Is there a workaround (5v wire to battery) or do I need to replace the batteries?
Also, the one tab on the swell is not setting (tremulant). Thoughts?

5) so it is possible to add reverb with Harrison Labs "expression pedal isolators" with a Nanoverb or should I consider Harrison Labs "DSP Ambience Processor" for MOS-1 organs?

6) You suggested these speakers in a previous email for my Rodgers 770 Analog organ. Would these work on the Allen and would I need a separate sub-woofer?

QUOTE:
These are standard "DJ" type speakers, similar in quality to the sub that you got. They are inexpensive and the cabinets are not really sturdy, but they should be perfectly fine for a home organ setup, and not too big to place three on top of the console facing up at the ceiling:
http://www.newark.com/mcm-custom-aud...00w/dp/74R5097

These are nice speakers too, made for wall-mounting and for use in a multi-speaker sound system. But they have a switch on the back to bypass the 70 volt transformer and use them as ordinary 8 ohm speakers. They come in pairs only, so you would have to buy two pairs. But then you'd have a spare:
http://www.newark.com/stellar-labs/5...ite/dp/71Y5712

[paul2169]

Hi, Larry,

Thank you for your replies. John answered my questions here but I do have more.

RE: reverb - did you use Harrison Lab adaptors for the expressions pedal with the Nanoverb?

RE: speakers - presently I have 4 speakers that are too big for the room (32A, 32B, 16-1 and 32SG (gyrophonics!)). The Allen organ is 2 channel. Are there any other speakers that you would recommend besides the HC ones? If I can find the HC models, would I need 2 speakers? I take it the HC's have subwoofers in them.

[Larrytow]

Paul,

John and I were posting at the same time last night, and we both pretty much agree on recommendations. Guess I learned some stuff from him over the years !

We do sorta disagree on speakers though. HC speakers have 15" woofers in them, so I really like them for any organ installation ( church organ, that is ) in a home. For most folks a subwoofer will not be needed with those. You would need one cabinet for each channel. You can double them up if you have a really big room, but that would be unusual in a house. They are not as easy to find as compared to buying new speakers, but they do come up for sale regularly. The only issue with the HC speakers is that the midrange speakers usually need to have the foam surrounds replaced. And on the HC-12 if you should come across one, the same thing applies to the 15" driver. The HC-14 or 15 speakers do not have foam surround 15" drivers, so those are normally in fine shape. John did a real nice write up about refoaming the midranges on those - it is in the Repair section of this forum as a sticky.

I also am an advocate of Not putting the speakers on top of the console, unless there is just no other place for them. On all my home organs, I have the speakers some distance from the console, and I prefer that set up as it is more like playing in a church / venue. I like them across the room if at all possible. But then, I consider my home a place to keep my organs first, then worry about how other stuff fits in it. Not everyone thinks like I do on that. LOL

Yes, I do use the Harrison isolators for any MOS Allen reverb install I do. They work well, and are easy enough to use, that doing it any other way is more trouble. There are other ways to do it, but these make it so quick that it is worth what they want for them in my view. I would not bother with the Traveling Wave or Ambiance Processor thingies. I've never played with one myself, but I have heard that it is not that big of an improvement, compared to the cost. For the sound generation technology era of the MOS organs, Nanoverbs seem to mesh with it just right.

Why would your organ have Gyrophonic speakers ? Seems odd to me for a 1978 model. Does yours have a rank of analog celeste generators in it ? I'm not too familiar with the speaker models you mention. Could you post some photos ?

Replacing the batteries in the memory power unit is not that hard to do. I would suggest you do it. The proper NiCads can be ordered online, or Batteries Plus normally has them too. The electrical theory behind this does not quite compute, but it has been my experience that the older DM systems work better with good fresh batteries in them. I'm of the opinion that the batteries do more than just the power off back up duty. I think the reserve current in them helps that system operate smoother.

[Larrytow]

Oh yeah, for the console cabinet lock key you could try Chicago Cabinet Lock # 2260 ( most all ADC and above organs have this one, but perhaps later MOS as well ? ). Or #2257 and #H2011. I have those in my organ key collection, but they are not marked as to what organs they fit. Usually a good hardware store can make those up for you, just using the numbers.

It's nice that you found the memory key hidden in it.

[jbird604]

I'm with Larry all the way. Do get some nicads and replace the battery cluster asap for best results. And a pair of hc15 or hc12 Allen cabinets would be perfect if you can find some and have room. BTW the old speakers you mention were commonly used with mos organs until 1980 or so. No gyros in that set, just big boxes!

[paul2169]

I'm also considering the Harrison Labs "DSP Ambience Processor" for the reverb unit. Any thoughts? I replaced the batteries on my Rodgers Exeter 770 so I think I can handle the ones on the Allen. It looks like soldering is in order...not my favorite to do as I like things neat and tidy. I will send you pics of all 4 speakers soon. They are too big and I'm getting some acoustical thumping on full organ. Maybe my small space is not conducive for these large space speakers. The Allen Mos-1 organ was acquired from a church.

- - - Updated - - -

We were wondering why the 322SG gyrophonic speaker was included in this church installation. Perhaps to warm the sound a bit?

[Larrytow]

As I said before, I'm not familiar with that Gyro cabinet. But perhaps that organ has an analog Celeste generator in it, and that is why it was included ? Some MOS organs did have the Celeste generator rank, and it sounds nice with the digital stops. How is that Gyro controlled ? By the normal tabs for Tremulant, or some extra switching ? Was it a Gospel style church you got it from ? Maybe they were trying to get a Hammond / theater sound out of it ?

I've got no advice regarding the DSP thingy - never played with / heard one. I do know that Nanoverbs work very well on those organs.

The best way to replace the batteries is to remove the whole power supply unit, and do the soldering on the bench. I usually use my soldering gun to attach wires to batteries like that, not a small soldering iron. I have more photos of the replacement if needed.

[paul2169]

No celeste generator. From what I have observed, the speakers turn slowly when the organ is turned on. No controls, no tabs on the console. The organ was moved from a Methodist Church that now has a band. Will pursue the NanoVerb unit. Yes, please send pics. I was just trying to remove the 4 batteries and it's a juggling nightmare. Perhaps I can find similar batteries with tabs and convert the wires to clips. I did this on my Rodgers organ with 2 batteries. Much easier to replace in the future.

[Larrytow]

Here are some photos of one I did back in 2012. At that time I got the batteries from Batteries Plus, and they were 6.79 each. They also had the equipment to weld the contact tabs onto the battery ends for me. They did that for no extra charge.

You will need to follow the AC cord from the unit to the power distribution box on the floor of the organ, then untie the tie wraps along the way to get the unit out nicely. Allen makes well laid out consoles, so it is no big deal to do that.

Once it is on the bench you take the perforated top off and the batteries are right there. You need to observe the proper polarity on the batteries and replace them in that way. They are not all Pos to Pos, etc. They are wired in series, not parallel. If you lay them out side by each on the bench, it is easy to do. Once the new ones are soldered together, just fold the pack together and put them back in the clamp. I see that I used heavier wire than the original Allen jumper wires, but that is likely not a needed improvement. I may have just done that because that wire was handy in the shop.

I would not bother putting quick connectors on the batteries. If you need to replace them again in 20 years or so, you would need to solder the quick connects onto the new ones again anyhow.

That should restore your capture action back to brand new working order. Your one lazy tab may start working again too. Or not ?

[Larrytow]

Here is one more possible key to try for your console. I have one here on my Allen keyring that is not marked according to what organ it belongs to, but I think it fits the folding top on a T-12. It is Corbin Cabinet lock # CAT 30.

And, I'm not telling you Not to try the Harrison DSP system - it might well be very good. I just know and use Nanoverbs and like them because they are very adjustable for input and output levels. They also have lots of different reverbs and effects to play with.

[Silken Path]

No celeste generator. From what I have observed, the speakers turn slowly when the organ is turned on. No controls, no tabs on the console. The organ was moved from a Methodist Church that now has a band. Will pursue the NanoVerb unit. Yes, please send pics. I was just trying to remove the 4 batteries and it's a juggling nightmare. Perhaps I can find similar batteries with tabs and convert the wires to clips. I did this on my Rodgers organ with 2 batteries. Much easier to replace in the future.

Hi, Paul - on my older Allen, the gyro is controlled by "Flute Tremolo" tab to go to high speed. I think the "newer" models are all AC though and relay controlled. AnalogAllen Larry here would likely have info as he is knowledgeable about gyros.

[jbird604]

Allen shipped gyros that turned VERY slow with the earliest MOS organs, first year or so of production only. This ultra-slow motion was achieved by having the motor drive a large pulley via belt, then a small pulley on the shaft of the big pulley drove yet another large pulley through a second belt. It took perhaps a couple of seconds for the gyro to make a full rotation.

That was before they perfected the fully digital "random motion" effect, and the slow-motion gyros helped to dispel the completely sterile pitches of the first MOS models. I don't recall ever seeing these slow gyros on any models built after about 1973, but I could be wrong. Perhaps they continued to be offered as an option.

Another type of gyro altogether was also an option, a "tremolo" gyro that was used to create a big throbbing theatrical tremulant. That option was offered well into the MOS era, but at some point was discontinued in favor of the Trem-3 electronic tremulant unit. Neither the fast gyro nor the Trem-3 were commonly used on organs going into churches where classical pipe organ sound was wanted.

So, first MOS organs had slow gyros. Next came the 16-1 and 32A/B sets (which is what I thought you were describing until you said it had motors). The "16-1" cabinet was used on the MAIN channel only and had one 15", one or two 12" and two tweeters. The 32A/B was a "stack" of two boxes, with a pair of 15" in the bottom and a pair of 12" in the top, along with two tweeters. It was used on the FLUTE channel, since that channel carries the pedals. The 16-1 and 32A/B setup was used until probably around 1980, when Allen switched over completely to HC-12 speakers for all channels in all models.

BTW, the one tab that will not set -- look at it from the back and you will see two thin flexible metal leaves that must be touched by the central tongue when the tab is depressed. You may see that one of the leaves is not touching the tongue. With the tab in the off position, press in gently on that leaf and move it closer to the tongue so it will make contact when the tab is down. That should restore the ability to set it.