Allen Digital Questions

[Vercus]

Hello,</p>

I just played a small 2 manual Allen digital organ, about 15 years old. I'm guessing somewhere around 20-25 stops. I'm assuming this would be ADC era? Sadly it only had internal speakers, so it sounded understandably muffled/constrained. I'm used to playing a large 632-D 3 manual MOS era organ. The ADC had a blind capture action, with an LED telling you which piston was active. BOO!! LOL. I thought blind action died in the 60s.
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Some things I noticed about the sound: at first it sounded pretty similar to the MOS, but as I played it more I noticed the sound was more articulate, and the tuning seemed less "sterile" sounding than the MOS organ. My questions concern two things:</p>

First, a tab I saw called "Romantic Tuning Off". What does this do? I'm guessing that the organ is perhaps tuned just slightly off of what is perfectly accurate- what they call "Romantic" and if I were to press this down it would restore perfect tuning. Is this correct? I didn't press it, as I was just checking the organ out real quick.</p>

Second: The celeste. I am used to the celeste on the MOS organ which is a chorusy type of effect that affects all stops on the swell or choir manual of the 632-D, it's available on both. However, on this organ, it was a very different, more subtle type of celeste. When I used flutes 8 and 2 foot, I really didn't notice the celeste much at all, but when I used 8 + 4, I did, and it sounded more like an actual detuning, as if the 4 foot rank was being detuned. I liked it much better, but it just threw me off at first. It was pretty widely detuned at times too. Is this an analog celeste? I know they used that on some organs, I just don't remember which.</p>

Bottom line, I think if it had external speakers, I would like the ADC line- the tone generator really sounded pretty good for that time. But the internal speakers sounded like POOP..LOL.</p>

I would be interested in hearing from others who own or have played ADC organs...</p>

Thanks!</p>

-Jon</p>

[Clavier]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



I would be so bold as to assume that the organ you played might have been an MDC Allen as opposed to an ADC. These organs where a shameless attempt at cutting costs, with things like built in speakers, cheap capture action, non moving stoptabs, princess pedalboards, duplexing and unification, the list goes on. Although these were made post MOS era, they are actually a step down from any MOS organ. I should also mention that MDC or not, You can't really judge sound quality on any organ based on a built in tone cabinet because that is a cost cutting technique that adversely affects the sound quality..
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The next Allen I get will be an ADC. They are currently my favorite series of Allen digitals. I play an ADC 3100A on occasion that was built in 1985. This organ has a simple two manual moving drawknob console with a mere two main tone cabinets, (and two antiphonal cabs but I don't use them very often), and everything about it is <span style="font-style: italic;">perfect</span>. I don't know how this came to be, but this organ sounds better than the two year old Rodgers of similar specification that I play from time to time at another church in the area.
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[jbird604]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



Jon,</P>


If it is truly 15 years old (c. 1992), it could be fromlate in the ADC era, or could be MDS. I suspect from your description of the celeste that it is indeed an ADC era organ. If there is a tabin the swell labeled "celeste tuning" then it is ADC. If there is no such tab, but just a stop labeled Viola Celeste or Voix Celeste or something like that, then it is MDS. (I'm assuming that it is NOTone of the cheaper and much less desirable "MDC" models which were built in the early 80'swhich had a stop labeled "celeste effect" in the swell.)</P>


The "Romantic Tuning Off" tab functions as you guessed. The default (Romantic)tuning scheme puts some distance tuning-wise between the two channels of each division, but switching to the narrower tuning reduces the beating between stops considerably, though not completely.</P>


The celeste is not analog on any organs after the MOS era. The celeste of ADC models is produced by exaggerating the tuning differential between the two channels of each division. The Salicional and the Vox Celeste, for example, would be assigned to opposite channels, and when the "Celeste Tuning" tab is down, the detuning increases to a degree that makes these two stops beat "celestially" so to speak. Though the effect is unintended, it also introduces huge beats between other stops on the same manual. For example, the 8' and 4' members of any given chorus (such as the Principal 8 and the Octave 4) will be in opposite channels and will beat together quite wildly when the celeste tab is engaged. Of course, one would not normally have these stops drawn at the same time as the celeste tuning. However, an interesting combination on these organs is to use the 8' principal or diapason with the 8' flute or gedeckt, then turn on celeste tuning for an interesting and unusual celeste.</P>


Blind presets and self-contained speakers were used only on the least expensive ADC organs, and later only on the so-called "MADC" organs which used a simplified ADC technology that compressed most of the circuitry onto a single large board. The smaller and cheaper MADC organs had no card readers and even used considerable borrowing, with a single Gedeckt stop, for example, appearing in all three divisions. A number of the stops were used in this way, the trumpet, the 16' Bourdon, and others I can't remember right now.</P>


If you like the sound well enough and the price is right, you could get some good use out of one of these. External speakers would be a great improvement. Unfortunately little can be done about the presets. However, if this one has the presets that are factory set and cannot be changed, Allen did at one time have an upgrade that allowed you to set your own combinations. Still have to look at the display, though, as the tabs don't move.</P>


John</P>
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[Clavier]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



Jon, call me picky, but I wouldn't take an MDC for free, (unless it was midified perhaps). Even If it is an ADC, I would seek greener pastures. A person can get much nicer organ for free.</p>

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-Joe.
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[Vercus]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



If you can get a nicer organ for free, then definitely sign me up![:D]</p>

[quote user="Clavier"]</p>

Jon, call me picky, but I wouldn't take an MDC for free, (unless it was midified perhaps). Even If it is an ADC, I would seek greener pastures. A person can get much nicer organ for free</p>

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-Joe.</p>

[/quote]</p>

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[Vercus]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



Ahoy!</p>

The organ I played was not a prospective purchase, it was at a church that's looking for an organist. I interviewed for the position, but after playing the organ was starting to reconsider my decision. Regarding the pedalboard, it was AGO. Also, the plaque said "Allen Digital Computer Organ" so I don't think it's MDC. Those said MDC on the plaque right? Or am I wrong? It did have a set button for the capture action. I know cause I accidentally wiped out one of the presets..LOL. Nice.
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Either way it's still early in the game for them. They haven't even figured out what they're going to pay yet! They're looking for an organist / choir director. I'm not used to "directing" a choir so that would be something new. The choir is all of 10 people though. I'm not that into their approach though. They only use the organ for 2 hymns. Most of what they do is sing along to (brace yourself) contemporary CDs!!! Just the thought if being involved with that made my stomach turn. The only possible good thing I could see come out of it is that if I ride it out long enough, they may decide they don't need the organ at all and give it away. Guess who would be willing to receive it? Of course, then I'd be out of a job too...lol.</p>

Man I hate the path so many churches are taking. I've heard people talk of it here but never quite saw it up close and personal like this. It's sad. I can only hope sometime I get to reap the benefits of it and get a free Allen or something..LOL. Sweet.
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-Jon</p>

[MarkS]

Re: Allen Digital Questions

It could be an ADC 1000 but I'm guessing it's an ADC 420/520 or 430/530. It may have two memories, plus an "Add Stops" tab. <DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I do a lot of subbing on a later model, likely an ADC 530A, with an additional expander box.  It does a pretty decent job with double external speakers.  The internal speakers are terrible.  </DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>On these organs half the voices on each divisioin are tuned slightly off from the others.  The swell is out-of-tune with the great/pedal; unfortunately it does not couple with those additional pitches.  Pick the right two voices and it will always sound decent.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The voices are all duplexed, i.e. the flute 8' appears on swell, great, and pedal.  Thus there are only thirteen or fourteen voices.  This may appear to be a drawback, however, in practice it works better than an instrument with thirty+ voices derived from the same pitch sources.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>This organ shouldn't be a factor in your decision concerning the position.</DIV>

[Clavier]

Re: Allen Digital Questions

[quote user="Vercus"]

If you can get a nicer organ for free, then definitely sign me up![:D]</p>

[/quote]</p>

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I did, six of them LOL! [:D]</p>

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[Vercus]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



You lucky bum!! LOL. Well, by that logic there must be a classical organ for me waiting out there somewhere....</p>

I hope....</p>

-Jon</p>

[Clavier]

Re: Allen Digital Questions

There is. It's no secret that organ isn't very popular. There are far more organs in existence than there are organists. Use that to your advantage.

[radagast]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



[quote user="Clavier"]There is. It's no secret that organ isn't very popular. There are far more organs in existence than there are organists. Use that to your advantage.
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Give us some hints. What should I look for here in Indiana?</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



This thread has gone astray, but here are my hints (and experiences)for getting a good free organ -- Hang around organ stores (but don't makea pest of yourself)and get to be friends with the owners and salespeople. Also get acquainted with all the churches within a reasonable radius, know what organs they have, who is planning to upgrade, who's going hip-hop and possibly giving away their organ, etc.</P>


Then, when a church buys a new organ or gives away their old one, you'll know about it. You must be ready to remove it on the spur of the moment, as they often give little thought to what they're going to do with one until the dealer is on the way with the new one. But if you've been keeping your ear to the ground you won't be caught off guard. You will have to bear all the costs of getting it out of the church, so have some cash in reserve for this, some strong friends to call on,anda friendly organ mover on call. If you can work out a deal with the dealer putting in the new organ, he might transport it to your house for a minimal fee or even for free, especially if you can provide some service to him in return, such as training organists or bird-dogging for sales.</P>


Being an organ tech, I do all these things as a matter of course in my daily business. I've been very fortunate and have brought in a "new" organ for my small countrychurch every time I saw the opportunity to better the situation. In 14 years of playing in this church, I've brought in 6 organs, the last of which is a wonderful Rodgers3-manual drawknob only 22 years old,given to memainly because it hada few problems and there was a donor who wanted to give that church a new organ. I fixed it easily and am now enjoying the best organ I've ever gotten to play. Also, I have a nice Baldwin D422 -- a digital 2-manual drawknob built around 1990 -- at home to practice on. It was given away by a church that had an insurance settlement and justwanted a new organ.It had a few problems, but again, I fixed them quickly and have a great practice instrument. I spent 2 or 3 days getting it out of the church and itcost $600 to get it moved, but I could never haveafforded to buyan organ this nice.</P>


I've got to stop this though. It has almost become an obsession and I've at times had several old organs in storage. Recently I've found homes formost of them, and I don't need any more right now! The only thing I need to happen is for a church to offer me another Rodgers like the one at church to have at home. Then I'd sell the Baldwin and be in organ heaven all the time.</P>


John</P>
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[Clavier]

Re: Allen Digital Questions



Seriously? I thought everyone here knew how to score free organs.</p>

Well, start out by contacting every church in your immediate area. Don't just call them, go there in person. Find the person who makes decisions about such things, usually a minister of some sort. I will usually ask them if the church has an organ. If they do, ask if they have any old ones they would like to get rid of. Tell them you play and collect electronic organs and you are looking for an organ. Leave your contact information with them, ask them to give you a call if they come across any. This works well because, even the church doesn't have anything, private owners tend to stop by the church first when they are trying get rid of grandmas organ.</p>

Go to all the thrift stores in town and find someone that seems trustworthy enough. Tell them you collect organs and you would like them to notify you immediately if they are offered any organs. Leave them your info, of course. If the thrift store does not take organs, all the better. You can receive it free from the people trying to get rid of it rather than paying a thrift store for it. This works for music shops real well also.
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Ask people who are surrounded by music or who do a lot of buying and selling. An example of the first is anyone who plays piano or other musicians, but pianists especially because people, when trying when trying to get rid of an organ will often ask all the pianists they know first. Most pianists don't 'get' organ and thus would like as little to do with as possible. Tell them to call you when they get an offer. Also, a lot of them have one that has been taking up space ever since they found out it doesn't have a sustain pedal. Guitarists too, for some reason a lot of guitarists have keyboard instruments for some reason or other and are often willing to sell them cheap or trade. People who barter a lot often come across organs also.
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Tell your family. They will often keep an eye out for stuff for you and, because they like you, wont charge you when they do find something. My uncle owns a drywall company and came across a lime-oak Leslie 45 when renovating a Masonic lodge. Turned out he also had a left over model 45 from back when his wife used to play. He gave them to me shortly after I told him I was looking for organ paraphernalia. While you are at it tell your friends what you are looking for too.</p>

Okay, I have run out of time tonight so I will give you guy a few more hints tomorrow.</p>

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-Joe.
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