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Allen Organ ADC E-Prom Comparison List

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  • Allen Organ ADC E-Prom Comparison List

    I don't know if it is proprietary or not, but I have begun a list of ADC E-Proms on each of the cards in the cage for my organs. So far, I have the E-Proms listed for the following:
    • ADC-5400 (stock)
    • ADC-5400 (w/ gospel vibrato)
    • ADC-6000 (stock)
    • ADC-8000 (stock)
    • ADC-8000 (w/ theatre Choir division)

    The lists have brought up a couple of questions for me. I noticed, for example, the ADC-5400 does NOT have a 16' Rohr Krummhorn in the pedal division, but the same chip and card is used on the ADC-6000 and/or ADC-8000, which DO have the stop. This begs the question, "Is there a way to activate the 16' Rohr Krummhorn on the ADC-5400? I suspect it has something to do with the keying differences between the two organs, but don't have a way to know for sure.

    Would there be a benefit in sharing that information here?

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

  • #2
    I'd be willing to contribute mine too your list, if that will help.
    Sam
    Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
    Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by myorgan View Post
      I don't know if it is proprietary or not, but I have begun a list of ADC E-Proms on each of the cards in the cage for my organs. So far, I have the E-Proms listed for the following:
      • ADC-5400 (stock)
      • ADC-5400 (w/ gospel vibrato)
      • ADC-6000 (stock)
      • ADC-8000 (stock)
      • ADC-8000 (w/ theatre Choir division)

      The lists have brought up a couple of questions for me. I noticed, for example, the ADC-5400 does NOT have a 16' Rohr Krummhorn in the pedal division, but the same chip and card is used on the ADC-6000 and/or ADC-8000, which DO have the stop. This begs the question, "Is there a way to activate the 16' Rohr Krummhorn on the ADC-5400? I suspect it has something to do with the keying differences between the two organs, but don't have a way to know for sure.

      Would there be a benefit in sharing that information here?

      Michael
      There is not a way to activate the 16' Rohr Krummhorn on the 5400, without having Allen re-engineer some other chip which activates that sound. The keying differences have nothing to do with the sounds availability. The master chip for stop switching is the one that determines what sounds are available.

      I once owned a 3600 (theatre organ) that had some of the same chips as the 4600. There were sounds on those chips that could not be activated by the 3600, for lack of switching.

      I know that I am probably not using the correct terms, but hopefully you know what I mean. It has been a long time since I looked into these things.
      Mike

      My home organ is a Theatre III with an MDS II MIDI Expander.

      Comment


      • #4
        Am I understanding this correctly? There were waveforms on the chips that can’t be accessed unless another chip, the “master chip” will allow the stops to be accessed?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by samibe View Post
          I'd be willing to contribute mine too your list, if that will help.
          Sam,

          It will. I can send you a copy of the Excel file so you can see/improve what I've already done. I chose Excel because it allows filtering.

          Originally posted by m&m's View Post
          There is not a way to activate the 16' Rohr Krummhorn on the 5400, without having Allen re-engineer some other chip which activates that sound. The keying differences have nothing to do with the sounds availability. The master chip for stop switching is the one that determines what sounds are available.
          Mike,

          I absolutely know what you mean. Too bad something like that couldn't be easily obtained. It also serves to caution a person to make sure the E-Proms from their organ are replaced on the USMA-1(A) board if replaced. When I replaced one of my ADC-5400 boards just prior to a Symphony concert, I didn't have time to replace the E-Prom on the card in question. However, the sounds were acceptable, so I ended up just not exchanging the E-Prom with the one on the donor card.

          Originally posted by radagast View Post
          Am I understanding this correctly? There were waveforms on the chips that can’t be accessed unless another chip, the “master chip” will allow the stops to be accessed?
          My question exactly, Radagast! It appears from what has already been posted, in order to obtain/access the stop already programmed on the same-numbered E-Prom serving both organs, an additional change also needs to be made on the MA-1 board (maybe others).

          Of course, we haven't even addressed the issue of finding a stop on the organ to serve the additional stop. The stop map data would also end up being off (or at the least, deficient) should the USMA-1 be changed. I guess that's why we have techs!

          Thank you all for the additional information. The E-Prom chip in question resides on a TG-3 card in Slot 5 of the ADC-6000, but in Slot 10 of the ADC-5400. The only other difference is that the same chip is called a Schalmei on one organ, but Schalmei Bass on the other organ. Minor technicality, but the same stop nonetheless.

          For the above reasons, it makes it all the more important that when a person purchases a board from an online resource (i.e. *Bay or an organ dealer who has Electronic Organ Parts), the photos viewed are of the actual card, and are legible. In one case, one vendor (guess who it is!) has a fuzzy photo of an AV-1 card for a listing of a TG-(?) card. Of course, one can always move the E-Prom, but the exchange would be much easier to determine if the E-Prom is the offending part of the defective card.

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            Are we talking about an EPROM on the MA-1 board or one on the USCM board that determines which TG EPROMS are selected with a stop? I would think that stop mapping for any given ADC model would be on the USCM board. Looking at a photo of mine, there are two EPROMS that say 5300 ST (for stop tab). Presumably one also has the crescendo and Tutti sequences. Looking at a photo of an MA-1 board online, I don't see any data on the label that is model-specific.
            Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Steinway AR Duo-Art 7' grand piano, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico grand piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI, Allen MADC-2110.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by AllenAnalog View Post
              Are we talking about an EPROM on the MA-1 board or one on the USCM board that determines which TG EPROMS are selected with a stop?
              Larry,

              Sorry, I responded to the post at face value without double-checking with my ADC Service Manual. You're probably right about the stop map coming from the USCM. I think I need another ADC Service Manual so I don't have to go upstairs or downstairs to get it. It's always at least one floor away from where I am when posting!:embarrassed:

              Michael
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • #8
                OK, so I checked the service manual once I switched floors. It turns out both of the posts were correct.

                In one place, the manual states, Every stop space [snip] is assigned a slot in the stop map eprom on the Multiplexer board. Further, it goes on to say changes in stop positions or changes must be made through a change in the eprom.

                However, later in the manual for one particular organ, it states The stop map eprom for this cage is in socket number 1 [snip] with the eprom number being ____. That said, the statement only appears for multi-cage organs, and not on the single-cage organs.

                Therefore, both statements were correct, given the information above. Who knew?

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yes, but the stop map EPROM is still on the USCM multiplexer board, not in a card cage. Your quote refers to socket 1 on the USCM board, not card cage slot 1.

                  Look further in your manual at the page referenced next to the text of your quote and you will see a USCM layout diagram showing separate stop map EPROMS for each cage data bus. There are four EPROM sockets, so the ADC-9000/9300 with four cages will have the maximum of four stop map EPROMS.

                  The Crescendo/Tutti map is in a separate EPROM in a socket more towards the middle of the USCM board.

                  That still begs the question of having to change the USMA board EPROM if you get a new one. Each card cage has its own USMA master board. My (and perhaps our collective) understanding of the function of the EPROM on that board is still somewhat sketchy. Is the data on the EPROM used to set up the frequency tables? If so, then that could be model specific. I'm thinking of the Celeste Tuning and Romantic Tuning stops on my instrument that alter the frequencies.

                  The USMA board also has pot adjustments for speech articulation (and vibrato affecting FG-1 boards) but that function was dropped early on and those pots are shown as "Not Used" in cage charts.
                  Last edited by AllenAnalog; 11-24-2018, 09:02 PM.
                  Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Steinway AR Duo-Art 7' grand piano, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico grand piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI, Allen MADC-2110.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AllenAnalog View Post
                    Look further in your manual at the page referenced next to the text of your quote and you will see a USCM layout diagram showing separate stop map EPROMS for each cage data bus. There are four EPROM sockets, so the ADC-9000/9300 with four cages will have the maximum of four stop map EPROMS.
                    Uncle! I think your manual is much newer than mine. I don't have any ADC-x300 series organs listed in mine, or anything above ADC-8000. Oh, well. I do wish I had the extra information you have.

                    Michael
                    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                    Comment

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