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  • Largest Digital Organ Company in the World

    As I was doing some browsing I came across an interesting fact that I had not heard before. Last January, Music Trades list named Viscount as the largest digital organ manufacturer in the world by sales volume. It appears that they surpassed Allen by $10,000,000 USD. Viscount is #153 and Allen is #156 on the list. Johannus ranks #213.

    Viscount attributes their success "in part to our continuing increase in United States sales of our Physis® Technology driven organs." You can get the the Viscount article, which has an embedded link to the Music Trades listing, at the following:

    https://www.viscount-organs.com/visc...ld-by-revenue/

    It is interesting that Viscount is not as well known in the US as a number of other brands, so this seems like quite an achievement. It makes me want to hear one of their Physis® organs even more.
    Last edited by voet; 12-09-2018, 09:50 AM.
    Bill

    My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

  • #2
    Originally posted by voet View Post
    As I was doing some browsing I came across an interesting fact that I had not heard before. Last January, Music Trades list named Viscount as the largest digital organ manufacturer in the world by sales volume. It appears that they surpassed Allen by $10,000,000 USD. Viscount is #153 and Allen is #156 on the list. Johannus ranks #213.

    Viscount attributes their success "in part to our continuing increase in United States sales of our Physis® Technology driven organs." You can get the the Viscount article, which has an embedded link to the Music Trades listing, at the following:

    https://www.viscount-organs.com/visc...ld-by-revenue/

    It is interesting that Viscount is not as well known in the US as a number of other brands, so this seems like quite an achievement. It makes me want to hear one of their Physis® organs even more.
    Please do not take offense,...but regardless who claims to be the largest digital organ builder in the world,...I'll stick with Allen!
    Late 1980's Rodgers Essex 640

    Comment


    • #3
      Keep in mind that Viscount also has a line of keyboards and Hammond clones that might account for a difference in sales figures.
      -Admin

      Allen 965
      Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
      Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
      Hauptwerk 4.2

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Dewey643 View Post
        Please do not take offense,...but regardless who claims to be the largest digital organ builder in the world,...I'll stick with Allen!
        Allen claims to be the biggest organ manufacturer in the world based on total sales since the company started. The biggest surprise is how far down Johannus is. Listening to some people, you’d think they are kicking Allen’s backside every year in sales.

        Originally posted by Admin View Post
        Keep in mind that Viscount also has a line of keyboards and Hammond clones that might account for a difference in sales figures.
        Good point.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by radagast View Post
          The biggest surprise is how far down Johannus is. Listening to some people, you’d think they are kicking Allen’s backside every year in sales.
          That said, however, I've certainly heard more about Johannus in the last few years than I had ever heard before. Viscount has been an almost unknown company to me until the past year or so (when John got his at home). I simply assumed they were an EU manufacturer, and ignored posts about them because I also assumed they made home organs only (not what I'm in the market for).

          I'm learning more about lesser-known classical organ companies in the past year or so than I have in all the years prior! I can only hope that as they gain more market share, they also maintain the customer service standards which have served Allen well over the years.

          Best of luck to them. As Allen has lost their customer service standards, I hope other companies have learned lessons from them.

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by voet View Post
            As I was doing some browsing I came across an interesting fact that I had not heard before. Last January, Music Trades list named Viscount as the largest digital organ manufacturer in the world by sales volume. It appears that they surpassed Allen by $10,000,000 USD. Viscount is #153 and Allen is #156 on the list. Johannus ranks #213.
            According to the Music Trades Magazine (Issue December 2016) that you are referring to, the difference in sales is $1,000,000, not $10,000,000 as you claim. The article you are quoting is dated information from the December 2016 issue. According to the most recent December 2018 edition of Music Trades, Allen Organ is listed as #172 with sales of $17,500,000 and Viscount International at #170 with sales of $17,800,000; a difference of $300,000. Considering Viscount’s sales include electronic pianos, draw-bar type home organs, and other instruments, their sales do not represent ONLY church organs, as Allen Organ’s do. There is no way to compare apples to apples in such a report and comparing these two companies as such is unfair and not represented by facts.

            Originally posted by myorgan View Post
            Best of luck to them. As Allen has lost their customer service standards, I hope other companies have learned lessons from them."
            Allen Organ is known for quality instruments and service. Unlike other companies, Allen Organ can service and provide parts for any organ we have produced. If you have an issue with service, please contact the Allen Organ Company directly as we will be able to assist you ([email protected]). Making such an unsubstantiated claims as “Allen has lost their customer service standards,” is damaging to the reputation we have worked so hard to maintain. I would hate for someone reading this blog to read your comments and misconstrue them as facts, especially since you are a moderator on this blog.
            Jonathan Boksan
            District Manager
            Allen Organ Company

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jboksan View Post
              According to the Music Trades Magazine (Issue December 2016) that you are referring to, the difference in sales is $1,000,000, not $10,000,000 as you claim. The article you are quoting is dated information from the December 2016 issue. According to the most recent December 2018 edition of Music Trades, Allen Organ is listed as #172 with sales of $17,500,000 and Viscount International at #170 with sales of $17,800,000; a difference of $300,000. Considering Viscount’s sales include electronic pianos, draw-bar type home organs, and other instruments, their sales do not represent ONLY church organs, as Allen Organ’s do. There is no way to compare apples to apples in such a report and comparing these two companies as such is unfair and not represented by facts.

              Allen Organ is known for quality instruments and service. Unlike other companies, Allen Organ can service and provide parts for any organ we have produced. If you have an issue with service, please contact the Allen Organ Company directly as we will be able to assist you ([email protected]). Making such an unsubstantiated claims as “Allen has lost their customer service standards,” is damaging to the reputation we have worked so hard to maintain. I would hate for someone reading this blog to read your comments and misconstrue them as facts, especially since you are a moderator on this blog.
              Thank you for the correction to my error, jboksan. I inadvertently added an extra zero. Also thank you for the figures from the current Music Trades Magazine.

              The point of my original post was not to make an "apples to apples" comparison for church organ sales, (although I thought that Allen sold theater organs in addition to church organs.) There are two things that struck me from the article:

              1. I did not realize the size of Viscount, since they do not have the name recognition in the U.S. that some other firms do. I realize that they have more things in their product line than classic digital organs, which of course contributes to their sales figures. Regardless of what contributes to their success, they are not as small a player in this market, as I had previously assumed.

              2. They credit their Physis® technology as a key component to their success. That piques my interest. If people are choosing Viscounts over other brands due to this technology, I want to check it out. While recordings and YT videos are helpful, nothing compares to hearing something live.
              Last edited by voet; 12-10-2018, 10:05 AM.
              Bill

              My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by voet View Post
                They credit their Physis® technology as a key component to their success.
                As far as I knows Viscount not only uses Physical Modeling in classic organs, but in Piano's as wel. And also in their Legend models (some sort of Hammond clone).
                That said, as you know I have a physical modeling organ and its sound and versability are marvelous in my personal opinion (for what this is worth). It is definitely worth listening to. I compared it with similar priced Johannus and Content models AND similar prices 'plug-and-play' VPO solutions, and for me the choice was easy. However, I did not compare it with an Allen model.

                Regards, D.
                Last edited by Dutchy; 12-10-2018, 06:23 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by radagast View Post
                  Allen claims to be the biggest organ manufacturer in the world based on total sales since the company started. The biggest surprise is how far down Johannus is. Listening to some people, you’d think they are kicking Allen’s backside every year in sales.


                  .
                  Apparently someone takes issue with my statement. Since Allen started around 1939, and was most likely the first American company to build electronic church organs which attempt to imitate pipe organs, it’s quite possible and probable, that the total number of organs they have built since then IS more than any other company. Are there any other electronic organ companies that have been around that long?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ...Or a site that showed pictures and sound clips of the very many poorly-installed and poorly-voiced Allen Organ installations by their authorized and factory-trained dealers as examples of their "dedication" to their customers.

                    It's always easy to paint your competitors in a bad light by taking their worst and comparing it to your best. I am generally very favorable toward Allen (I have owned two of their instruments personally) and have nothing but positive things to say about their build quality, but the church-organs.com website was a very disappointing decision that caused me to lose a great deal of respect for the culture and values at Allen corporate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jboksan View Post
                      Allen Organ is known for quality instruments and service. Unlike other companies, Allen Organ can service and provide parts for any organ we have produced. If you have an issue with service, please contact the Allen Organ Company directly as we will be able to assist you ([email protected]). Making such an unsubstantiated claims as “Allen has lost their customer service standards,” is damaging to the reputation we have worked so hard to maintain. I would hate for someone reading this blog to read your comments and misconstrue them as facts, especially since you are a moderator on this blog.
                      Jboksan,

                      You appear to represent yourself as an official representative of Allen HQ. May I suggest you take note of my signature and the number of older Allen organs I own. I cannot afford a new one at the prices Allen charges. The statement I made is an opinion, based on several substantiated encounters I have experienced, both in person at Allen HQ in PA, and via lack of service provided by their representatives in my area. Over a decade later, some issues remain unresolved, and I've given up on the Allen corporation for a resolution. Were it not for this Forum, I (presumably) would not have any of my organs in functional condition for use at my church, the symphony, or for other performance/personal practice purposes.

                      Allen has historically produced an excellent product. I cannot speak regarding their more recent instruments as I have little to no experience with them. Something has changed at Allen HQ since I first toured the factory in the early 1980s. I hope they can return to their root values before it's too late.

                      Now back to the original intent of this thread. In my opinion (most people understand blogs express personal opinions–even if stated by a Moderator), Allen getting away from their roots, as well as the multiple recent sales of the Rodgers Organ company, has left the door open for other, lesser-known companies to step in and proffer their products in the dwindling organ market. Time only will tell the result.

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi,

                        Just to add a little more fuel to the fire.

                        MUSIC TRADES, magazine does a census of the world' biggest music companies. The biggest company in the music biz is........YAMAHA.

                        Now, the Music Trades figures includes companies that have a non-musical component to them.

                        So, it is nigh near impossible from this data to find out the biggest organ company, or if we narrow it to church organs.

                        Viscount, besides making church organs, also make public address systems, professional audio, Hammond clone organs, and digital pianos.

                        Allen, besides making church organs, makes theatre organs, and have a subsidiary called Allen integrated Assemblies.

                        Johannus, is in the classical / church organ market. They operate under a variety of nameplates

                        But all this info. doesn't tell you diddly-squat about which company is largest.

                        For that you need to know how many organs are produced.

                        Johannus figures have gone up, due to them acquiring Rodgers. The former Rodgers President mentioned about 5 or 6 years thatRodgers was making 400 organs per year. About the same time Johannus had an order rate of around 1,400 units.

                        In an interview the president of Allen said they were producing approx 800 organs per year. Twenty or so years ago Allen was making over 2,000 units.

                        I heard from somone in the know, that Viscount production was around 1,000 units.

                        Since Music Trades is is an American publication, no doubt there is an American slant to the information.

                        How people who like digital organs, like Allens, and after so years of being sold in the states, and saying they were not aware of European competitor companies sounds strange to me.

                        Someone was wondering why they knew or heard so little about Viscount. Well, there is a story to that, let me know if you want "the rest of the story"

                        AV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by arie v View Post
                          Someone was wondering why they knew or heard so little about Viscount. Well, there is a story to that, let me know if you want "the rest of the story"
                          I am very interested, so if you want to share it, I am in.

                          As a warming up, here is the story of Viscount and Domus in Holland, as far as I know it. In Holland Viscount was for years and years an years sold under the name "Domus". It was a very familiar brand. But for some three years or so (I'm not sure how many years exactly, I apologize), Domus ceased to exist. It became Viscount, with some new organ models added to the old range of organs. But the name Viscount was not associated by many with "classical organs". And Viscount did in my opinion rather little in advertising their new brand, although (or thanks to?) there are severel dealers in the Benelux. Even now when somebody hears from Viscount, they don't know what organs they make (if any) until I tell them it was formerly "Domus". I'm interested if there are analogies with the story of Viscount you are referring at?

                          Regards, D.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Posts Moved

                            Well, once again we've had a thread hi-jacked by Allen Organ critics and defenders. That might be tolerable if the same ground hadn't already been covered in other recent threads. Personally, I'm tired of it.

                            For those who wish to continue the bickering, I've moved those posts to their own thread here:

                            https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...urchOrgans-com

                            Do not continue this squabble by posting anywhere other than that thread. Regardless, I expect the same standard of civil behavior that we have on this Forum in that thread. Personal attacks and insults will not be tolerated and will have negative consequences.
                            Last edited by Admin; 12-11-2018, 08:48 AM.
                            -Admin

                            Allen 965
                            Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                            Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                            Hauptwerk 4.2

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by arie v View Post

                              Someone was wondering why they knew or heard so little about Viscount. Well, there is a story to that, let me know if you want "the rest of the story"

                              AV
                              yes, I'm interested in knowing the rest of the story too.

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