Rodgers 830: End of the road?

[tbeck]

This morning I turned on the 830 and when I depressed the Start button, a couple of pistons lit up and the organ shut off. I pressed the Start button again and most of the pistons lit up and the organ shut off. If I continue to depress the Start button, the organ stays on and the pistons stay lit, but as soon as I release the button, it shuts down.

Is it going into some sort of test mode when it starts up? I hope there is a quick and easy fix for this.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year,

Tom

[jbird604]

You can try flipping the little switch on the power supply assembly to the "bypass" position. That forces the organ to remain "on" all the time, and you could only turn it off by having it on an external power strip. This of course defeats the purpose of having a soft-start/soft-stop routine, but as long as you are sure you have saved all your pistons before powering off it shouldn't harm anything.

And you can't enter the test mode or configuration mode without the push-button power switch, so this is not truly a permanent fix, but it will let you find out if the power supply is or is not working.

However, it may not work even with the bypass switch. Sounds like there is some sort of power supply issue, perhaps one of the voltages has gone down. We recently saw a Rodgers of similar type and vintage doing something like that, and found that one of the "pico" fuses in the power supply had opened up. These are unfortunately some oddball little fuses that aren't easily replaceable like the typical fuses in holders that we are all familiar with. They are little soldered-in thingies that look like resistors. Why in the world they used these I don't know!

I think they are just about right in the middle of the Power Supply pc board, possibly soldered to some stand-off posts to elevate them above the board a bit. They are probably marked with numbers like F1, F2, F3, and so on. If you can find them, test each one with a meter to check for continuity (with the organ turned off, of course, and unplugged from the wall).

If one of them is open, you can try using a couple of clip leads, running the leads from the ends of the open fuse to the ends of a common 4 amp fuse. For a permanent fix, you can either order these online or you can mount an ordinary fuse holder away from the board and run some little wires between the board and the holder.

Of course it's remotely possible that it will just blow the new fuse when you try it, if there was a valid reason why the pico fuse blew. But I've had two or three of them go out in the past year, and could find no reason why they blew. Putting in new fuses fixed the organ and no further problems ensued.

Good luck!

[tbeck]

If you can find them, test each one with a meter to check for continuity (with the organ turned off, of course, and unplugged from the wall).

If one of them is open, you can try using a couple of clip leads, running the leads from the ends of the open fuse to the ends of a common 4 amp fuse. For a permanent fix, you can either order these online or you can mount an ordinary fuse holder away from the board and run some little wires between the board and the holder.

Of course it's remotely possible that it will just blow the new fuse when you try it, if there was a valid reason why the pico fuse blew. But I've had two or three of them go out in the past year, and could find no reason why they blew. Putting in new fuses fixed the organ and no further problems ensued.

Good luck!

I did manage to find the bypass switch. Now the organ doesn't shut down, but all of the lightable pistons are illuminated, but there is no MIDI output.

Thanks for the suggestions, John. I'm sure for you that this could be done in a matter of minutes. For me... maybe never. I don't even own a meter or know how to use one. I could probably learn, and it might even be a fun project. But in the meantime, what I really want to do is play.

One other consideration: this is fairly old console. So if I do manage to get this problem fixed, it's just a matter of time before some other component of the MIDI subsystem fails.

I think my two best options are replacing the console, or midifying it. The option of midifying carries the same problems for me as trying to fix the current problem, i.e., lack of skill and knowledge. I might be able to find someone here who could do it. The problem with replacing the console is that it would almost certainly have to be shipped from the States. And of course that is a budgetary problem. Maybe I'll try harder to see if I can find something available here.

Do you know of any technicians who are planning a tropical vacation in Puerto Rico this winter?

[myorgan]

Please forgive the question, but could the organ have had a power surge that may have caused the issues? I know since the hurricane, power has been spotty in parts of PR, so I'm not sure if that might have been an issue. Just a thought.

Michael

[tbeck]

The power supply certainly could be responsible. Would the organ have to turned on to be affected by a power surge?

The power supply in my area has seemed to be pretty stable for the last several months. And as I was thinking about it, the power went out! The outage only lasted for a couple of minutes, fortunately.

To my recollection, the power hasn't gone out while I was playing the organ. It simply developed the problem from one day to the next. So I'm not certain if there was a power surge. None of my other electronic devices have developed problems.

[myorgan]

No, the organ doesn't need to be on to receive damage from a power surge.

Also, I'm sure your organ has been tropicalized, which should prevent most environmental issues, however, John's (& others') advice will help cure/prevent many issues that can occur in many connections.

Michael

[jbird604]

This is truly sad, but you certainly have a point. That is the price you pay for living in such an exotic place! If I were a free spirit I'd probably take it as a challenge and start planning such a vacation. But alas, I have to keep my business alive, play for church every week, and plan my vacations and outings around my wife and kids.

It's not just places like Puerto Rico though that are really in a bind when it comes to technical help at reasonable cost. There are large regions of the continental US where a qualified organ tech is many hours away, and it costs thousands of dollars for the most minimal service call. I don't have a solution. We have created a "monster" in the organ business -- complex electronic devices that require highly skilled labor to service them, while the number of skilled techs worldwide is sharply declining due to a variety of factors.

This is only going to get worse, unless an army of young people decide to get themselves trained and educated in the skills needed to repair all manner of digital electronic devices. A skilled tech might not have enough organs to make a living in an isolated region like Puerto Rico, but if he or she could also repair home appliances, computers, phones, and other such stuff that shares a certain amount of digital technology with organs, it could be a booming career.

Perhaps a change is coming. I do hope so!

[tbeck]

I've found a couple of Allen installations here on the island. I'm going to contact them to see if they can tell me who does their maintenance.

[tbeck]

Before I give up completely, here is a picture of the power supply. Is this what you expected? Are the "thingies" marked D2, D4, etc. what you are referring to as the pico fuses?

[jbird604]

No, the parts labeled "D" with a number are DIODES, not fuses. Fuses are always labeled "F" plus a number. Your power supply is quite different from the ones we've had trouble with recently on 80's analogs, and I don't believe there are any pico fuses on yours, thank goodness!

Be sure to check all the fuses in that long line on the left. Even if a fuse doesn't look blown, it should be tested with a meter. Or simply try changing each one out and see if that makes it go again. Your symptom is very much like a missing power supply voltage, but there are other things that can cause a voltage to go down besides a blown fuse.

If you were familiar with a meter, you could test the fuses in place, and also test the diodes as well, since they are a fairly common cause of failure too. But if you can find out who comes out there to service those Allens, maybe you can get a call.

Good luck!

[twnelson]

On the Rodgers supplies with the spade lug type connectors (like your Type 19), oxidation in the connection may cause a low voltage on the affected line and bizarre behavior from the CPU. Standard procedure is to pull and reseat all the spade connectors (DeOxit or the Vaseline treatment may be a good idea in your climate) and check all the output voltages.

[tbeck]

I'll try both suggestions regarding the fuses and spade lug connectors. Thanks.