Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!

[buzzyreed]

Ok so I'm going to be nasty here, but I think I need to. Do any of the 'instruments' in the following youtube link sound like an organ? Seriously? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XP4kETfEEo</p>

Now, I am not anti-Allen, that's for sure, I own two. But what is going on at the tonal department that they think that this is how an organ should sound? </p>

</p>

At least the newer Rodgers organs SOUND like an organ. I never thought I'd say that! But am I just nuts? Listen to how 'Satan Incarnate" Barry Holben's 'piece' sounds on the 'reeds.' Are they even trying anymore? </p>

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Love to hear more youtube postings of modern electronic organs. This will help us decide who finally wins (Allen or Rodgers) and who goes home in shame!</p>

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buzzy</p>

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[FrenchHorn8]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!

*barf*

[davidecasteel]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



Well, I wasn't satisfied with it, but I wonder just how much of the fault might be with the recording process. TV recordings are not noted for their high quality (unless the show is designed to be for organ music, such as when Diane Bish plays). I didn't think the lead-in pipe organ sounded particularly good, either. I also thought the reeds sounded a little peculiar, but there is a Casavant instrument here in Dallas that has very percussive Trompette en Chamade pipes--maybe they were trying to imitate that.</P>


David</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



Buzzy,</P>


I don't think one could really judge an organ based on such a medium as youtube, and I'm sure you'd agree. Yes there are some yucky sounds in that video, but the audio is wretched even on the speaking voices, so it's a wonder you can even tell when the music is playing.</P>


But, it's nice to know that aTV station devoted a segment to our beloved KOI. Whether they are promoting a local business or not, they have put in a nice plug for the organ.The audio is indeed poor on youtube, but hopefully it sounded betterwhen they actually broadcast the piece.</P>


For me,all audio-video organdemonstrations arequite unconvincing.The proof is in the pudding -- the end result when the organ is in the church. And I amdisappointed with too many of the new organs I hear, whether Allen, Rodgers, any other digital, or even pipe organs. I don't believe this is due to any inherent problem with the builders alone. There is plenty of blame to go around.</P>


What is in short supply right now is the concept of what an organ should actually "DO" in church. If the church, the local musicians,and the organ's builder (and more importantly installer/voicer) -- if these all understand that the organ is an integral part of the building into which it goes, that it's proper role is to fill that space with glorioussound, to be not only heard but felt by the worshippers, to be powerfully led into a musical experience -- then they will work together to get it right. If none of the above are concerned with the actual role of the organ, other than as a place for the organist to park his rump, a good organ outcome is unlikely.</P>


Far too many organs are purchased and then simply plugged in with little or no thought to whether the instrument fits the room. No amount of voicing and finishing will fully compensate for an organ that is woefully undersized for its room. Nor for thoughtless and careless placement of the speakers.</P>


On that subject -- would any credible organ builder say that it doesn't really matter where the pipes get stuck? Wherever there's some empty space? How about up in the hole in the wallnext tothe PA system?</P>


Well, the speakers of a digital correspond in function to the pipes of a pipe organ. And it does matter where they are put. I matters A LOT!! But in my experience, the organ installer is called in at the last minute to help the contractor find a suitable hole in the wall so they can dispose of those pesky organ speakers. No wonder the results are so often disastrous.</P>


John</P>
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[jimmywilliams]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!

It's funny that I was just thinking about a similar thing the other day. Now, I know nothing about designing organ voices, but it seems to me that some modern organs have voices that sound nothing like a pipe would be capable of producing. You can have some very realistic orchestra type samples nowadays. Did the early organ builders really hope to have an organ sound exactly like orchestral instruments, or were they really trying to evoke the "feel" of those instruments while still having them sound like they were produced by an organ? Just wondering.

[buzzyreed]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



I'd have to disagree. You really can tell the voicing of an organ from even a low quality recording. You can tell exactly what it sounds like in real life. That tonal scheme sounds exactly like the new Allen digitals I've played at the dealership. Simply awful. I know it sounds really **fill in the word** but I really can tell what something sounds like in real life from a low quality recording. I can do it with voices, orchestras, and certainly electronic instruments. I saw that Made in a America segment the other day at the Rodgers plant and it sounded fairly convincing. You could tell when they used pipe ranks and when they used only electronic, but it was still believable. I just am surprised that the Allens sound like that. The flute stops sounded just like they do on my 1971 model and worse than the ones on my analog. I just don't get it. They have all that technology but they don't have a real musician with a discriminating ear on staff. </p>

Also, I don't think that 'organ' at the begining was entirely real. It sounded like it had digital ranks in there, but maybe it didn't. If it didn't it should be revoiced or sold as a Rueters. </p>

</p>

Whenever Diane does one of her Allen commercials they still sound like crap. Such beautiful consoles, but such lousy tonal design. I'm not a big fan of Rodgers either, but when she brought one of those in, at least it could fool you for a while. There is nothing in nature that sounds like an Allen organ. </p>

Anywhoo.. the discussion continues. keep posting organ samples. </p>

</p>

buzzy</p>


</p>

[jbird604]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



"There is nothing in nature that sounds like an Allen organ......"</P>


Buzzzzzzzzz,</P>


Wait til you hear my analog organ recording, if/when I'm ever able to get it done. Supernatural, perhaps?</P>


John</P>
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[arie v]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



Buzzy,</p>

Try these Rodgers recordings on YouTube. They sound even worse than the Allen stuff.</p>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UlWjLPe95Q</p>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSUXvN4V4g8&amp;mode=related&amp;search=</p>

I'm not sure why these folks are putting this kind of crap on the internet for all the world to hear. Most of the playing is mediocre to terrible, the sound is disgusting, frankly an embarrassment to the instruments builders. Or maybe they DO SOUND that bad.</p>

Arie V.</p>

[buzzyreed]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



While these clearly represent the lower end of the Rodgers spectrum, they actually sound like organs and are voiced accordingly. I suspect that these sound this way because the little part of the wave form that begins and ends the sound is not as good as it should be. It tends to give the thing a "toy piano' sound, which I find characteristic of the Rodgers instruments. At least this is what I imagine is going on. I know nothing about how electronic organs work, but that's what my ear is telling me. It could be lying...</p>

</p>

But like I said, the last one at least sounds like it could be a real organ if it had adequate speakers, etc. </p>

</p>

What do others think??</p>

buzzzzzyyyyy</p>

</p>

[radagast]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!

[quote user="buzzyreed"]


I'd have to disagree. You really can tell the voicing of an organ from even a low quality recording. You can tell exactly what it sounds like in real life. </P>


buzzy</P>


[/quote]</P>


And I have to disagree with you, buzzo. By the time something appears on you tube, it has gone through several changes. First you have the recording equipment used. Television equipment is not EQ'd in a flat manner. It tends to emphasize the frequencies in the human voice range. Then there are noise supression devices to reduce any hum that might creep in. And then you have the compression scheme used to put in whatever form it is on you tube. Some compression software might introduce phase distortion or other artifacts that will totally change the character of a sound. And then there is your playback scheme on yourcomputer. There are a lot a reasons why something you hear on you tube doesn't sound accurate. That is just the plain facts. </P>

[Guest]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!

I've never heard a digital organ that sounded convincing. Most of them seem rather strange and fake, often downright weird! But what should you expect? Can a company that produces close to 40 organs a week spend the kind of time pipe organ builders spend on tonal finishing? Besides, the whole philosophy is wrong - it's the same philosophy that had Laurens Hammond convinced that his "organ" was as good as a pipe organ. And as long as the public is as musically ignorant as they tend to be, they will never notice the difference - especially if they've never actually heard a real pipe organ. When I was a teenager my parents were missionaries, and we traveled around the country to many different churches for a period of several years. During this time I was in only one church that had a pipe organ, and I instantly fell in love with it, even though it was nothing special. All the rest had electronic organs ranging from uninteresting to horrible, and most of them never got played much or very well. Many churches now are even discarding their toasters in favor of keyboards and other electronics, or the "praise and worship team" with their guitars and drumsets. Since it's all about entertainment and musical fads instead of worship, they see no need of "stiff formalism" in music, which is represented especially by the organ.

[MD1032]

Re: Does this sound like an ORGAN to you??!



Honestly, though, what do you expect? It's Allen. Their job is to mass-produce mediocre electronic organs. The organ might sound better in real life, but what's the point, anyway? It'll still sound like an electronic organ.</P>


And I agree, the trumpets were the worst part of the video. They didn't sound good at all, in fact, they didn't even really sound like trumpets, either organ or orchestral.</P>