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  • Things you read on the internet..



    Ok, so I read this on the internet, so feel free to tell me if it's true. I read that Allen based a great deal of its pipe samples on Moller organs. No wonder they sound like HORSE#$$^% sometimes. Why on earth would you ever purposely record one of the worst organs on earth for a pipe sample. Is this true? It would explain a lot, but.. it seems too convienient...</p>

    </p>

    [^o)]</p>

    </p>

    buzzy</p>

  • #2
    Re: Things you read on the internet..



    Möller made some of the finest string stops to be found anywhere.</P>


    Ihave access toa '40's vintage Artiste that has a set of these nice strings. It also has a very round Diapason, extended down to a room-rattling 16' pitch in the Pedal. The Trumpet is very dark and smooth like chocolate [:)]-in a closed box it sounds a lot like an Oboe. The voicing is prompt and even from top to bottom.</P>


    Not every Möller stop is wonderful, but I would not say they are one of the worst organbuilders on earth - far from it.</P>

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    • #3
      Re: Things you read on the internet..

      I have to agree with Soubasse here.  I have worked on many Moller organs. They may have not been exciting or innovative in many of their installations but quality of the pipework was always good and voicing was always good, sometimes excellent. One of my favorite stops of theirs is the conical dipapson on the Artiste.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The mechanism, on the other hand... </DIV>

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      • #4
        Re: Things you read on the internet..

        One thing I wanted to add:  Allen did acquire the title to the Moller company name, as well as some records.  Not sure exactly how they deploy that...<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>300th post!</DIV>

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        • #5
          Re: Things you read on the internet..

          [+o(]

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          • #6
            Re: Things you read on the internet..

            buzz...... i've came across lots of Mollers....so many i've lost track, but I do have to say they are always at least good organs. I've never came across any Moller I'd say "sucked'..they are all at least "good", sometimes quite marvelous...I don't think they would have built 10,000 organs or however many it was had they not been at least "good".


            Its the same with Allen. i've never been wowed by one ever, but they are good standard organs...well acept for my 123C Allen which is only half operable now lol

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            • #7
              Re: Things you read on the internet..

              buzz...... i've came across lots of Mollers....so many i've lost track, but I do have to say they are always at least good organs. I've never came across any Moller I'd say "sucked'..they are all at least "good", sometimes quite marvelous...I don't think they would have built 10,000 organs or however many it was had they not been at least "good".


              Its the same with Allen. i've never been wowed by one ever, but they are good standard organs...well acept for my 123C Allen which is only half operable now lol

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              • #8
                Re: Things you read on the internet..

                Moller made around 12000 organs. Thats phenomenol. Thanks to Moller many venues have a real pipe organ and not otherwise.

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                • #9
                  Re: Things you read on the internet..



                  If my memory is correct, the very first Allen Computer organs used samples from "North American" organs, but none were American. I assumed that to mean Casavant. Some of the Allen voices, notably the Fagot and Quintaton, were reminiscent of Casavant stops. It was claimed that some of the cards had voices from elsewhere, e.g. the Spanish Trumpet was from the Emperor's organ in Toledo, Spain, recorded by Jerome Markowitz on vacation. At one time Allen had an advertisement with photos of crated Diapason pipes borrowed from a historic English organ which were to be sampled at the Allen factory.</P>


                  They bought the records of Moller after the bankruptcy but that doesn't mean they bothered to sample any pipes.</P>


                  There is a very fine ca. 1932 Moller on the north side of Chicago. It was donated by William H. Barnes and his brother as a memorial to their father; it is assumed that Barnes drew the specification and had a major hand in the voicing. (Due to space problems the bottom twelve notes of the 16' Diapason are diaphones and the Choir division is in a nearby room with a tone chute. Even so, the Choir is less anemic, better balanced than in most organs of the era.) Alas, these voices probably haven't been sampled by anyone.</P>


                  There are also horror stories of the rather recent (andalready replaced) large Moller at St. Chrysostom's which had such nice features as "lifetime tuned pipes."</P>

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                  • #10
                    Re: Things you read on the internet..



                    At one time Allen had an advertisement with photos of crated Diapson pipes borrowed from a historic English organ which were to be sampled at the Allen factory.</P>


                    In 1983 I went to McCungie Pa and met with Larry Phelps. We spoke of 2/7 mouth pipes and he mentioned that the ad that showed the pipes in a crate were in fact 2/7 mouth diapasons.</P>

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                    • #11
                      Re: Things you read on the internet..

                      [quote user="odellorgans"]They may have not been exciting or innovative in many of their installations but quality of the pipework was always good and voicing was always good, sometimes excellent. The mechanism, on the other hand... [/quote]


                      That sums up my observations precisely.</P>


                      There are some mechanical exceptions however: the Artiste I play seems mechanically sound - in fact, the mechanical parts of the console are builtlike a battleship. However, it suffers from that horrible condition where all of the stop tabs and console labels are shrinking. [:O] I don't know what that material is, but it is something like celluloid or bakelite - immediately after WWII it was not very good quality, and it seems that all of the Möllers of that vintage are just now turning to dust.</P>


                      I've also played some drawknob Möllers of the same vintage - the drawstops are falling off the shanks, and it is very difficult to re-attach them.</P>


                      Some trademark features: bourdons and other wood pipes stained a clear yellow; ugly expression shoes with aluminum frames and a big screw in the center of the shoe. [:D] Pedalboards that are just left of center, moreso in the bottom octave. Big clunky pneumatics everywhere.</P>

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                      • #12
                        Re: Things you read on the internet..

                        [quote user="soubasse32"]There are some mechanical exceptions however: the Artiste I play seems mechanically sound - in fact, the mechanical parts of the console are built like a battleship.  However, it suffers from that horrible condition where all of the stop tabs and console labels are shrinking.  [:O]  I don't know what that material is, but it is something like celluloid or bakelite - immediately after WWII it was not very good quality, and it seems that all of the Möllers of that vintage are just now turning to dust.


                        I've also played some drawknob Möllers of the same vintage - the drawstops are falling off the shanks, and it is very difficult to re-attach them,[/quote]</P><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Like many other domestic builders, Moller for a time was using cellulose material for stoptabs and identification plates.  You can always tell when these components reach a certain age: they start to crack and distort. The company that made all those parts and did all their engraving - HESCO - is still in business.  They switched over to a more stable resin in the early postwar years.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Interesting about the pedalboards, I never took note of that. The expression shoes are often mounted on an axle in the knee panel (as opposed to the more solid-feeling "pedestal mount" used by others) which is the reason for that large center screw. I have rebuilt a few Moller consoles; one thing that frustrates modification of the piston rails is the piece of angle steel installed in the front rail of the keyboard frame.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>The conical diapason (the taper is very slight, probably 1/4 or 1/5) I expect was an invention borne of necessity for the Artiste. Another clever thing about the Artistes was the use of static wind pressure to supply the 16' and 8' octaves of the Bourdon stop, which served a dual purpose: static wind delivered higher wind pressure where it would be useful and prevented the speech of the larger bass pipes from shaking the wind for the rest of the organ (the Artiste typically only had one small reservoir).</DIV>

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                        • #13
                          Re: Things you read on the internet..



                          I play an Allen Mos 2 225 with 8ft and 4ft diapason cards sampled from the Schultze organ at St Mary's Tyneside. These were presented as a real selling point when the organ was sold to the church. However it is very difficult to hear any difference between this 8ft diapason and the spec 8 ft diapason built into the instrument</p>

                          </p>

                          Keith</p>

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