Revoicing a digital organ

[Guest]

My church has a Makin Organ from 1991, and is it possible nowadays to revoice a few particular stops easily? Do you have to take it all apart and install new microprosessors etc. or can you just adjust a few things or plug in something? Or can voicing only be adjusted when the organ is brand new and first installed?</P>


Just to show what I am on about, I feel that the Great Trumpet is really quiet, so if I have to play a grand piece with trumpet solos, all that can accompany it is the swell 8' 4' flutes. Of course I have tried to add a few stops to great trumpet as well to stop it being drowned out. Is it possible to easily adjust that stop so, effectively, the wind pressure is increased and it has a bit more brilliance to it?</P>


I was also thinkingif the Great Stopped Diapasoncould bequietened.</P>
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Thanks for your thoughts</P>


Jezza</P>

[Stefanussen]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ

No kidding, I was at an Allan dealership yesterday playing what I believe was their largest 3-manual rennaissance (not quantum). Probably $100K+ instrument. Underwhelmed would be an understatement. That organ was simply unimpressive in every regard. My wife and I had a really good laugh when we I pulled out the majestic 'Festival Trumpet' and got nothing. Playing it alone revealed that the thing was voiced like a string or flute :p

[Guest]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ

Makin in now owned by Johannus...so if it's one of theirs then you need access to their software, which a Johannus salesman would have. Most of these software programs for voicing are pretty straight forward and relatively easy to use. I don't know what their policy is about loaning of sharing this software. Some digital companies refuse to allow anyone but their authorized dealer access to this software...but their are ways of acquiring it...but you'd have to have friends in the business. If your Makin is older one and not a Johannus I don't have a clue what you can do. Bottom line is..contact a Johannus salesman and see what happens...maybe, if you're nice, he'll come over and do it for you, especially if you give him song "song and dance" re: possibly trading it in on a new one.

[jbird604]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



A Makin of that age would predate their association with Johannus. Also, that was before most organ companies started using software to voice their instruments. I'm guessing it has some tiny potentiometers mounted on circuit boards for adjusting the levels of the various stops. May take some detective work to figure it out, or you may be able to get a service manual directly from Makin or get a technician to find you one.</P>


But what you want to do should be possible. However, you may find that the stops are in some kind of "groups" so that raising the level of that Great Trumpet may affect some other stops too, and you may not want that to happen.</P>


John</P>
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[arie v]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



Jezza,</p>

Back in 1991, Makin was building organs using a variety of technologies, maybe even Johannus stuff by then. If it was Johannus technology, I seriously doubt it would have been voiceable. They had a technology which was based on additive synthesis (using sine waves, and was analog), and I believe they also used the Bradford system.</p>

If you want work done on the organ, I would suggest you send Hugh Banton, the engineer at the time an e-mail. His e-mail address is [email protected]. Make sure that tell him what model you have, date of manufacture, etc.</p>

AV


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[nullogik]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



[quote user="StentaTuba"]Makin in now owned by Johannus...so if it's one of theirs then you need access to their software, which a Johannus salesman would have. Most of these software programs for voicing are pretty straight forward and relatively easy to use. I don't know what their policy is about loaning of sharing this software. Some digital companies refuse to allow anyone but their authorized dealer access to this software...but their are ways of acquiring it...but you'd have to have friends in the business.[/quote]</p>

We're about to get our Viscount and theres software for that too - which I'd like to get my hands on!</p>

Luckily I've found a copy of it on the net here:</p>

http://www.prestigeorgans.com/SITE_P...nload_Area.htm</p>

...and navigate to the "Editor Software" section. I gather this might be the "lite" version, but hey, its better than nothing (and its free) [:D]
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[arie v]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



Hi,</p>

Which model Viscount are you getting.</p>

Actually, I quite like the tone (for the most part) of the new Viscount organs. Quality is much better too now.
</p>

In North America, they are pretty much a non-entity. They had a distributor in the US who went broke, after several years of difficulty, and so very little product came over for a few years. Now they are trying to rebuild the brand in the face of a declining marketplace. They basically have not done much now for 5 or 6 years now.</p>

AV
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[nullogik]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



Its the "Prestige 80" which is basically identical to the topline "Prestige 100" but rather than having drawstops it has lighted rocker tabs.</p>

Unfortunatly the Viscount is not the one I wanted to go for (Allen Protege [:P] ) however, its not my money being spent! I've played on one previous Viscount before and that was a "Grand Opera" which was about 10 years old with internal speakers. I must say that this was about the worst digital instrument I have come across in terms of build quality:</p>

- First the bench was not rigid, if you moved from side to side the whole bench shimmied and creaked unlike my TC-3S bench is 100% rigid (and I'm no heavyweight)
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- Then there was the feel of the keys which had an extremely synthetic feel to them (ie. no effort to try and mimick pipe organ keyboards) and they provided awful feedback...just like playing on a $20 Bontempi Kids keyboard
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- There was the overall build of the case, made out of really cheap and nasty wood that would not befit an organ half the price</p>

- Finally, the foot volume pedals which had 0 resistance. This meant that it was difficult to get any volume between 0 and 100% - the slightest touch and they woudl shoot from one extreme to the other. </p>

Apparently the last point is a well known "Viscount" fault according to our Viscount dealer. Question is, if its a known fault, then why is it in 10-odd years has Viscount not done anything about it. The dealer told us that we'd need to "tighten the pedals up with a spanner periodically"?! When Rodgers and Allen are quite capable of providing volume controls with resistance then why can't Viscount? I've never had the pedals tightened up on my TC-3S which is pushing on 35 years old.
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I look forward to seeing how much of an improvement the Prestige series is over the Grand Opera. But I can say that Viscount still falls way short of build quality when compared to Allen and Rodgers.
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[arie v]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



Hi,</p>

I agree with your assessment of Viscount organ quality of an instrument that is now probably over 15 years old. They just didn't inspire confidence.</p>

However the latest Viscount Prestige, was actually very nice. It was a P-40. Most all your concerns have been attended to. Plus the sound is really quite good. As with any organ, make sure you load up the audio on the organ, and make sure it is properly voiced. </p>

My guess is that the new Viscount Prestige organs have a much better build quality when compared to the Italian made Rodgers. In some ways the Allen Protege organs feel somewhat cheap as well.</p>

Put it this way, these days you will rarely see the real pathetic build quality you used to see frequently in the 80s and even into the 90s. Garbage organs just don't sell well anymore at any price.</p>

AV

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[Guest]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ

[quote user="jbird604"]


A Makin of that age would predate their association with Johannus. Also, that was before most organ companies started using software to voice their instruments. I'm guessing it has some tiny potentiometers mounted on circuit boards for adjusting the levels of the various stops. May take some detective work to figure it out, or you may be able to get a service manual directly from Makin or get a technician to find you one.</P>


John</P>
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[/quote]</P>


I have been able to swing the music desk up to reveal many circuit boards, some labelled Great and Swell, and there don't seem to be potentiometers anywhere. That's without taking all the outside panelling off and having a poke around myself, which I'd really want to be cautious of as it's not mine!</P>

[Guest]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ

hmmm, I see what started as "how to revoice an older Makin" has evolved into the pros and cons of the Viscount organ. Wicks has just recently gotten into bed with Viscount for their digital line and use in their hybrid organs. They used to use Bob Walker...but I have a feeling that m.o.n.e.y.and p.r.o.f.i.t.has something to do with that. Viscount is infintely cheaper, in more ways than one. I'm not sure what Rodgers is using for their cheaper line, which are made in Italy...someone said Galanti, but I'm not sure....it's also very cheap in more ways than one. Roy Daniels

[dhm]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



I would heartily second Arie's recommendation of Hugh Banton.
He oversaw the installation and voicing of a large 3-manual Makin (analog - a cupboard-full of electrostatic tone wheels in the choir vestry!) in the church where I used to play in 1979. About four years ago he re-built it using Bradford system synthesis technology.
There are probably very few people in the UK today who would understand Makin organs of that vintage better than Hugh.
No matter whether analog or digital, I would guess it definitely ought to be re-voiceable, and Hugh would be the man to do it.
The only problem is, I think he's rather busy these days touring with his re-formed Van de Graff Generator band.

Best wishes,
Douglas.</P>

[arie v]

Re: Revoicing a digital organ



Roy,</p>

I don't know where you get your information from, but it seems only half correct.</p>

Wicks does deal with Viscount, but not only for the reason you mention. Apparently there was a falling out between Walker and Wicks. Also, the organ models that Wicks promotes have a Wicks style console, which is more pipe organ like than a standard Viscount model. They are no doubt less expensive than a Wicks console and Walker generators, but they ain't "infinitely cheaper" They are more expensive than a standard Viscount equivalent model. The Wicks version of the pipe organ stop module the CM-100, is the best of it's kind plus it is the most expensive on the market. So far Wicks/Viscount stuff has not been profitable for Wicks.
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The Italian made Rodgers is made in Acuaviva Picena in Italy, in a Roland factory. I don't know about the present Italian organs, but the previous ones were not good in any number of ways.</p>

AV</p>

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