Forum Top Banner Ad

Collapse

Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



    Hi,</P>


    I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with a Rodgers 755 organ? I currently own a four rank Wicks (Opus 5169, 1971) to which I would like to add MIDI, primarily for record and playback. There is a Rodgers 755 currently for sale in my area.The owneris asking $4000. (Ithink that is a bit overpriced for an analog organ.) Would it be better/less expensivefor me to add MIDI to my existing console? Here are the specs of my Wicks:</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"><U>Analysis: </U></P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Principal - 85 pipes </P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Flute - 97 pipes</P>
    <P mce_keep="true">String - 73 pipes </P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Reed - 73 pipes</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"><U>Great:</U> Principal 8', Gemshorn 8', Rohrgedeckt 8', Principal 4', Copula 4', Octave 2', Gemshorn 2', Mixture III, Trompette 8', Clairon 4', Blank tab (Chimes)</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"><U>Swell:</U> Gemshorn 8', Rohrflöte 8', Flute 4', Gemshorn 4', Quint 2 2/3', Blockflöte 2', Larigot 1 1/3', Gemshorn 1', Trompette 8', Tremolo</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"><U>Pedal:</U> Subbass 16', Principal 8', Rohrgedeckt 8', Choralbass 4', Flute 2', Trompette 8', Trompette 4'</P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Three general pistons with cancel piston</P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Combination Lock</P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Great Chimes (Off, Volume 1-5)</P>
    <P mce_keep="true">Crescendo pedal with light</P>

  • #2
    Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



    Jeff,</P>


    Rodgers 755 is a very late analog (1988 - 1990) and supposedly has the advanced MIDI system that allows full record and playback. But MIDI was still in flux at that point in time, especially on organs, and you can't be sure that the organ you're looking at will truly have the fully-developed MIDI system.</P>


    However, I'd be more concerned with the problems interfacing the Rodgers console with your existing pipes. It would surely be possible to come up with a way to do it, but the 755 and most other analog Rodgers organs were designed only to use certain limited pipe complements, usually one or two flute ranks,one or twoprincipal ranks, a Gemshorn, and that's about it. You probably could not use your trompette at all without some major reconfiguration of the Rodgers system, and Rodgers would not be able to give you any support for such a project.</P>


    Even to use the flues that you have, you would need the pipe interface from Rodgers and would have to hand-wire that to the Wicks chests.</P>


    The biggest advantage of doing it with the Rodgers console would be the addition of a number of new stops. However, these stops would be rather dated analog. You might be better off adding some new digital ranks to your Wicks with the new expander box they offer.</P>


    So, I'm leaning toward a MIDI-retrofit of the Wick's console, even though that too will be a very expensive project. Perhaps Wicks can provide you with such a system or recommend a source.</P>


    John</P>
    <P mce_keep="true"></P>
    John
    ----------
    *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



      Hi</P>


      My 6R pipe uses Artisan Micro-Midi components and works very well.Check out their site at www.artisanorgans.com</P>


      Does the Rogers have midi out? If so it should work. Stoptabs are another issue. Why not simply add Midi to the Wicks</P>


      console that you already have. I had no pipe console so My 1st Allen was a MOS-1 digital and I added Midi to it.</P>


      My latest Allen already has Midi. When playing you can always hear when the pipe comes on,</P>


      Christmas eve I entertained family with my easy playing then turned on the laptop with Christmas music and gave chamber tours.</P>


      It still brings tears to stand there and listen to the pipes sing and music all around.</P>


      Al</P>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



        Jeff,</P>


        Getting back to the Rodgers 755, the technical specs say that it can control up to 8 ranks of pipes. (Thanks, Matt, for thetip on that.)In that respect, the 755 is out in front of most of the small Rodgers analogs of the day. But the 8 ranks do not include reeds, so, as I said at first, you'd be on your own getting the trompette to play from the Rodgers console.</P>


        But with MIDI almost all things are possible! I can envison a MIDI decoder set up to play the reeds, responding to one of your reed stops on the Rodgers. To prevent the analog from playing along with the real reeds, it should be possible to turn the volume of that reed stop all the way down within the organ. You might, for example, let your real reeds play in the place of the Festival Trumpet on the Rodgers.</P>


        I guess another thing to consider is the condition of your present console and how satisfied you are with its accessories and features. The 755 is a nice console with an excellent capture action and lots of programmability.</P>


        John</P>
        <P mce_keep="true"></P>
        John
        ----------
        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



          Thanks for all the quick replies! Anybody have an idea what it would cost me to add MIDI to my existing console? It's really in good condition.</P>


          I don't understand why I wouldn't be able to control a reed from the Rodgers. Why are reeds different from any other rank? Can't any stoptab be used to control a stop from the Wicks? Here's what I envisioned:</P>
          <P mce_keep="true"><U>Great</U></P>


          Principal 8 - Principal 8</P>


          Bourdon 8 - Rohrgedeckt 8</P>


          Gemshorn 8 - Gemshorn 8</P>


          Octave 4 - Principal 4</P>


          Flute 4 - Copula 4</P>


          Nasat 2 2/3</P>


          Super Octave 2 - Octave 2</P>


          Waldflöte 2 - Gemshorn 2</P>


          Cornet III</P>


          Mixture IV - Mixture III</P>


          Trompette 8 - Trompette 8</P>


          Tremulant</P>


          Great to Great 4</P>


          Swell to Great 16</P>


          Swell to Great 8</P>


          Swell to Great 4</P>


          Celeste to Great</P>


          Harp</P>


          Carillon - Chimes</P>


          Harpsichord</P>


          MIDI to Great</P>


          <U>Swell</U></P>


          Bourdon Doux 16</P>


          Geigen Principal 8 - Gemshorn 8</P>


          Viola Celeste II 8</P>


          Gedackt 8 - Rohrflöte 8</P>


          Flute Celeste II 8</P>


          Principal 4 - Gemshorn 4</P>


          Nachthorn 4 - Flute 4</P>


          Nasard 2 2/3 - Quint 2 2/3</P>


          Blockflöte 2 - Blockflöte 2</P>


          Tierce 1 3/5</P>


          Sifflöte 1 - Gemshorn 1</P>


          Mixture IV</P>


          Cymbale II</P>


          Contre Trompette 16</P>


          Festival Trumpet 8</P>


          Trompette 8 - Trompette 8</P>


          Oboe 8</P>


          Clairon 4 - Clairon 4 (Great)</P>


          Tremulant</P>


          Swell to Swell 16</P>


          Swell Unison Off</P>


          Swell to Swell 4</P>


          MIDI to Swell</P>


          <U>Positiv</U></P>


          Bourdon 8</P>


          Principal 4</P>


          Flute 4</P>


          Octave 2</P>


          Quint 1 1/3 - Larigot 1 1/3 (Swell)</P>


          Pipe Tremulant - Tremolo</P>


          <U></U></P>


          <U>Pedal</U></P>


          Contre Bourdon 32</P>


          Subbass 16 - Subbass 16</P>


          Bourdon Doux 16 (SW)</P>


          Octave 8 - Principal 8</P>


          Flute 8 - Rohrgedeckt 8</P>


          Choralbass 4 - Choralbass 4</P>


          Nachthorn 4</P>


          Flute 2 - Flute 2</P>


          Mixture IV</P>


          Contre Trompette 16 (SW)</P>


          Clarion 4 - Trompette 4</P>


          Great to Pedal 8</P>


          Swell to Pedal 8</P>


          Swell to Pedal 4</P>


          MIDI to Pedal</P>
          <P mce_keep="true"><U>General</U></P>


          Flute Tremulant Full</P>


          Main Chorus Off</P>


          Festival Trumpet FF</P>


          Main Off</P>


          Antiphonal On</P>


          GT/PED Pipes Off</P>


          GT/PED Ancillary On</P>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



            The chamber side will need 4 rank driver boards, 4 micromidi boards, All Artisan</P>


            The consolewill need 3 input boards, key &amp; pedal, 1 or 2 micromidi boards</P>


            1 input board, stoptab, 1 micromidi board</P>


            You can look up theprices</P>


            With the Rogers, you will still need the chamber side + problems interfacing the stoptabs. Why spend 4K for a fancy rogers console when you probably won't use many ofthe sounds. Add midi to the Wicks. You can always sell the console with midi if youre not happy with it. Also you can then easily record &amp; play using a laptop with Cakewalk or other program. That's what I used for christmas and it worked well.</P>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



              Jeff,</P>


              The simple answer to why the Rodgers can't control the reed rank is that the CPU of the Rodgers 755 was not programmed to do that. Rodgers analog organs of that era used a somewhat primitive CPU to send keying data to the various analog keyer boards, instructing each board to sound the appropriate pitch at the appropriate level, based on what stops were on and what keys were down at any given micro-second. The programming allowed certain stops to be re-routed, using the pipe decoders in place of the analog keyer boards.</P>


              Theoretically, a program could be written to tell the system to substitute the real reeds for the analog keyer board, but I don't think anyone alive today and working for Rodgers would know how to do that, much less have the time to do it. This technology is just old and obsolete, and, while they would have customized it any way it was needed back when it was built, today all their efforts are aimed at maintaining their digital organs.They don't even sell MIDI adapters any more for their pre-digital organs.</P>


              The good news about today's Rodgers organs, as I understand the system, they are set up so that any stop can be real pipes. Of course, computers are so much more powerful and flexible than they were 20+ years ago. It costs nothing for Rodgers to build that capability into their present line of consoles.</P>


              Not to discourage you, just an explanation as I understand it.The 755 with your existing pipes would be "more organ" than you have now. I'm just not sure the improvement would be worth the cost. The same money invested in adding MIDI to your existing console and then attaching a nice digital sound module would probably give you more satisfaction.</P>


              How old is your Wicks console?</P>


              John</P>
              <P mce_keep="true"></P>
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



                I would like to thank everyone for their advice. I emailed Artisan and got an unbelievably quick reply with a quote from Mark. I'm pretty well convinced that retrofitting my existing console is the best way to go.Artisan's price wassignificantly less than what the fellow wants for his Rodgers 755. However, it still seems to be a lot of money when one can go to their local Target and buy a MIDI compatible keyboard for around $100. Are thereany other companies whose products I should investigate?</P>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Interfacing a Rodgers 755 with pipes



                  Sydyne sells a MIDI encoder board, and it's about $250 last time I checked (which is a few years ago). You'd need one for each division where you want MIDI. Also, a company called Sound Research offers encodersat about the same price.</P>


                  You can get the $100 keyboard at Target with MIDI because it is a TOY and the manufacturer will sell millions of them. The pipe organ MIDI encoders are designed as professional grade equipment intended to last for decades, with built-in protection against minor electrical problems, and for flexible, easy installation, with useful features; the manufacturer will likely only sell hundreds of them in a year (if that many). </P>


                  In the end, you pretty muchget what you pay for.</P>


                  Toodles.</P>

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X