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Johannus v Allen

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  • Johannus v Allen

    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Hi there,</FONT></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>As total newbee <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>from the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">UK</st1:place></st1:country-region> and I am required to make a choice between a Johannus/Makin and an Allen digital organ and I need help.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Tone and playability I can judge by trying out a few organs, but which has the best reputation for reliability etc? Which presents better value for money (the Allen is about 20% more than the Johannus/Makin)?</FONT></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3></FONT></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>David</FONT></SPAN></P>

  • #2
    Re: Johannus v Allen



    Need to know model number, age, condition of both in order to make an intellegent comparison.</P>


    Al</P>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Johannus v Allen



      David, I have never played a Johannus/Makin organ, so I'm not going to offer an opinion in that regard. On the other hand, I've had good experiences with Allen. I owned an Allen MOS-1 instrument for about 20 years, and found it utterly reliable (not a single issue of any kind the entire time I had it). I play on an Allen MDS organ at church now, and find the sound satisfying: quite pipe-like, especially with solo stops. Again, the instrument has been absolutely reliable (it's a little more than ten years old--we've had no problems at all with it).</p>

      Another factor: Allen has built a reputation for building durable instruments and providing good customer service.
      </p>

      If you search around a little on this forum, you will find other opinions about both of these manufacturers and their products. Good luck!</p>

      DR</p>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Johannus v Allen

        [quote user="al"]


        Need to know model number, age, condition of both in order to make an intellegent comparison.</P>


        Al</P>


        [/quote]</P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Al</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Iassumed (possibly wrongly) that reliability would be fairly consistent across the ranges.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That one make would be generally regarded as the better instrument long term. Both retailers tell me that theirs is the best, so there’s nothing new there! </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm looking at an new custom 2 manualorgans.</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">D</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
        <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
        <P mce_keep="true"></P>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Johannus v Allen

          [quote user="David H"][quote user="al"]


          Need to know model number, age, condition of both in order to make an intellegent comparison.</P>


          Al</P>


          [/quote]</P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi Al</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Iassumed (possibly wrongly) that reliability would be fairly consistent across the ranges.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That one make would be generally regarded as the better instrument long term. Both retailers tell me that theirs is the best, so there’s nothing new there! </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm looking at an new custom 2 manualorgans.</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">D</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
          <P mce_keep="true"></P>


          [/quote]</P>
          <P mce_keep="true"></P>


          Go try this on a model from both makers.While playing the organ press down hard on the keybed. If the keybed gives at all, walk away and never look back. Then try standing up on the pedalboard. Does it feel solid like a good pipe organ console would? If not, walk away and don't look back.</P>


          What kind of tonal scheme do you want? If you wantAmerican Classic (maybe not since you're not a Yank) then you have ONE model to choose from with Johannus.</P>


          Does Johannus make custom 2 manual organs? I didn't think they did. Allen does however.</P>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Johannus v Allen

            [quote user="David H"]<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><font face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">Iassumed (possibly wrongly) that reliability would be fairly consistent across the ranges.<span style=""> </span>That one make would be generally regarded as the better instrument long term. Both retailers tell me that theirs is the best, so there’s nothing new there! </span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">I'm looking at an new custom 2 manualorgans.</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><font face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></font></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN-GB">D</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-GB"><o:p><font face="Times New Roman"></font></o:p></span></p>
            <p mce_keep="true"></p>

            [/quote]</p>

            You should also put Phoenix on your list. I'm sure they could do a nice custom 2 manual for you. When Makin got sold, the folks behind Makin created the Phoenix sound system, which is quite good. Take your time looking and don't rule them out!</p>

            Andy
            </p>

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Johannus v Allen

              Since you're buying new, you need to be concerned with installation and service. Get a couple referals from each dealer and find out if the customer was satisfied. Don't rely on what the salesman says. Allen reliability and warranty are very good but service depends very much on the dealer and location. You need to be concernned with voicing by qualified personnel during installation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Johannus v Allen



                You could also consider Copeman Hart (though they are very pricey) or a Wyvern - both are UK companies.
                </p>

                Basically I think you should try as many different manufacturers as possible. Go and hear each instrument and examine things like build quality, warranty etc. Then whittle you're list down to maybe two or three and go from there.
                </p>

                So look at the following:</p>

                Allen, Copeman Hart, Wyvern, Phoenix, Rodgers, Johannus, Makin, Viscount &amp; Alhborn Galanti (no particular order). All these companies have dealers in the UK so it shouldn't be a problem demo-ing or hearing them.</p>


                </p>
                1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
                Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Johannus v Allen

                  [quote user="clumber"][quote user="David H"]
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Iassumed (possibly wrongly) that reliability would be fairly consistent across the ranges.<SPAN> </SPAN>That one make would be generally regarded as the better instrument long term. Both retailers tell me that theirs is the best, so there’s nothing new there! </SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I'm looking at an new custom 2 manualorgans.</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">D</SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
                  <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-GB style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
                  <P mce_keep="true"></P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  You should also put Phoenix on your list. I'm sure they could do a nice custom 2 manual for you. When Makin got sold, the folks behind Makin created the Phoenix sound system, which is quite good. Take your time looking and don't rule them out!</P>


                  Andy
                  </P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  That's a good idea. IIRC Phoenix is well represented in the U.K. And they do custom organs.</P>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Johannus v Allen

                    [quote user="radagast"]


                    Does Johannus make custom 2 manual organs? I didn't think they did. Allen does however.</P>


                    [/quote]</P>


                    Makin make the 2 manual custom. Same company in the UK.</P>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Johannus v Allen



                      Does it have to be a choice between Johannus and Allen?</P>


                      See my post on the Phoenix/Wyvern thread.</P>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Johannus v Allen



                        dhm</P>


                        I'm in Northern Ireland and Phoenix are a one-man-band over here so support is limited. I want the security of a support network.</P>


                        Wyvern didn't even reply to my emails so I will not be having anything to do with them.</P>


                        I am very impressed with Allen less so with Makin /Johannus; although both are quality instruments.</P>


                        David</P>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Johannus v Allen



                          Greetings!</p>

                          </p>

                          [ WARNING: newbie here! [:$] ]</p>


                          </p>

                          I'm in the same boat (almost... I live in other country, so different cenarios, namely availability of brands and organs for me to see "in the flesh" here).</p>

                          </p>

                          Anyway, I've been spending lots of effort (making technical analysis, hearing opinions, testing organs, writing reports (+40 pages now)) on the subject of buying digital organ for an auditorium. It will be 3 manual, 50 to 60 registers. We're talking big numbers here $$$$, if going for the really good organ companies.
                          </p>


                          In my opinion, things that matter for deciding are: (1) sound quality, (2) build quality, (3) having good suport and (4) quality/price ratio...</p>

                          </p>

                          Obvious stuff, of course. But it's important to have clear ideas. For example: Phoenix, Copeman and Ahlborn-germany (the ones that make custom organs) did not answer my mails, so =&gt; "rule (3) was violated" and they are out. Simple as this.
                          </p>

                          </p>

                          According to my efforts and criteria my choice right now is narrowed to Allen or Johannus/Monarke.</p>

                          </p>

                          "Normal" Johannus are not good enough for my ears, but Monarke and Makin are special Johannus's divisions, with more advanced technology. I'll be probably going soon to Holand to play one of these, and make final decision between Monarke and Allen.</p>

                          </p>

                          If I put demo CD of both brands... Allen wins (Monarke's romantic tutti seems very "confuse"; Allen's trompetes are incredible (hear the Boyce's "trumpet tune" of Allen's CD... amazing). Johannus/Monarke seems better than Allen in mixtures, though... Played and tested Allen here in my country, but in bad acoustics (always a problem: hearing instruments in completly different spaces!).</p>

                          </p>

                          Anyway, the organ can be good, but "killed" if without a proper number of channels and speaker (see articles of Dr. Pykket, like http://www.pykett.org.uk/EndOfPipeOrgan.htm)... that's where I stand right now: having a good "project" regarding channels and speakers, with realistic costs...


                          </p>

                          Just my opinion. Good luck to us (like it or not, we have to live with both electronic and pipe organs...)!</p>


                          </p>

                          Regards.</p>

                          </p>

                          -A

                          </p>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Johannus v Allen



                            PS: "Ahlborn-germany"... the folks at Italy are efficient and promptly replied my emails regarding tech details of the TWK keyboard, for example. Ahlborn's german division "customizes" the organs (so I've been told... no awnsers from them 'till now [:@]).
                            </p>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Johannus v Allen

                              A few years ago Ahlborn-Galanti US didn't answer an email or written letter...and they are right here in Bensenville, Illinois.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Sounds as though you know what to do.</DIV>

                              Comment

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