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  • Tutti



    Hi there!! I do not post here much, but i have a question that
    I have been thinking about for a while. After church this past
    Sunday my minster of music approached me and asked me what i did on a
    certain hymnm. We sang Because He LIves on Sunday
    and he requested that the congregation sing it with boldness. So
    i took that is playing with boldness. On the last verse of the
    song, I used a button that I rarely use, just cause im scared. I
    hit the tutti I button on our Rodgers organ, and when we got to the
    refrain i hit tutti II. He asked me to do use that more often;
    however, I think it can just be really too loud. Our organ is
    about 12 years old and is something simliar to the Rodger TM 968.
    I was wondering if anyone here was familiar with this button and if
    anyone might have some suggestions. I do use the crescendo pedal
    often, which has similar effects, but not as drastic. Thanks for
    the suggestions....



    </p>

  • #2
    Re: Tutti



     </p>

    What is Tutti II? <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; font-weight: bold; line-height: 19px; ">fff<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Times; font-style: italic; font-weight: bold; line-height: 19px; ">f<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Arial; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">?  I've never seen/heard one before -learn something new everyday! Anyhoo, I have to say that was bold indeed, in a good way. If it's what they want, then by all means, give it to them! Just think, how many eyes you may have opened to the congregation about how grand an organ can be. Sure, it may be just an old Rodgers, but the principal is the same. I'm all for it!</span></span></span></span></p>

    c<span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px;">on moderazione. [:D]</span> </p>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Tutti



      "just an old rodgers?" It is actually a very good organ, and
      it should be for what we paid for it. Still sounded like it did
      the first day we had it, and can still shake the chandeliers in the
      church, if the guy that played it that day returns. I wont play
      it that loud, unless im there alone. No, it is nothing like a
      great pipe organ that we looked at, but it was about 600,000 bucks less
      than what it would cost to have a new pipe organ installed. So we
      went with the digital organ, and have been very VERY pleased.

      </p>

      I honestly, cannot explain what Tutti II is, I just know
      that it is a very bold, and full sound....can sound GREAT, in
      moderation!

      </p>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Tutti



        Never seen Tutti I and II, but I have seen Crescendo I &amp; II (or A &amp; B) on Allens.</p>
        1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
        Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Tutti

          tutti = sforzando = "full organ." The custom Allen electronic/pipe organ I take lessons on also has two "flavors" of tutti. "Full organ" can mean different things depending on the style of music you are playing, and adding certain stops into the mix can actually make the organ sound "bad", so a lot of the time the tutti will not literally"pull out all the stops" on the instrument.
          Jimmy Williams
          Hobbyist (organist/technician)
          Gulbransen Model D with Leslie 204

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Tutti



            Tutti I and Tutti II are commonly found on Allen and Rodgers organs. A bit of a misnomer, I suppose, since "Tutti" means "everything" and how can you have "everything" and then a different "everything" . . .</P>


            But, there's "tutti" . . . and then there's "TUTTI!!!!" . . . The first tutti will generally bemost ofthe foundations up through mixturesand light reeds. Second tutti will add 32' and big reeds. Actually, modern digitals allow you to create your own tutti combinations, so they could be anything you want.</P>


            Maggie, your MoM may indeed be encouraging you to put more oomph into the organ generally. And that is a really good thing. You are so fortunate NOT to have a MoM wanting you to tone the organ down so the keyboards and guitars and amateur wind players won't be overshadowed.</P>


            John</P>
            John
            ----------
            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Tutti

              [quote user="jbird604"]


              But, there's "tutti" . . . and then there's "TUTTI!!!!" . . . The first tutti will generally bemost ofthe foundations up through mixturesand light reeds. Second tutti will add 32' and big reeds. Actually, modern digitals allow you to create your own tutti combinations, so they could be anything you want.</P>


              John</P>


              [/quote]</P>


              You are correct, generally speaking. However, on some organs "Tutti I" may be all flues except celestes, and "Tutti II" then would be the same, but adding reeds.</P>
              Mike

              My home organ is a Theatre III with an MDS II MIDI Expander.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Tutti



                One of the newer pipe organs I helped design contains both a Tutti I and a Tutti II.</P>


                These are programmable on every memory level, so are really like two extra generals (though I prefer not touse themthat way too often; or if I do, I make sure to reset them so they don't surprise any other organists).</P>


                I programmed the default setting so that Tutti I is full to reeds and mixtures; Tutti II contains some sub-couplers, the loudest Solo reeds, and both 32' stops.</P>


                I wouldn't hesitate to use the Tuttis on an electronic organ, as long as I had my foot on the expression pedals (prepared to shut them, if necessary)! [:D]</P>


                My rule of thumb is - never play so loud that you cannot hear the congregation (though that also sort of depends on the placement of the console).</P>


                If the console is placed very close to the speakers (or pipes) you may need to have a friend in the congregation help you decide on volume levels. This is also true if the congregation is unusually close or far away.</P>


                I tend to use the same sort of settings for hymns, even if the congregation fluctuates in number. I moderate those settings with the expression pedals. I do this, as the congregation does get accustomed to hearing a certain volume level. Itry notto surprise them too often. [:D]</P>


                I use the Tutti at my church only at Christmas and Easter - when we have a packed church, full choir, full orchestra, the organ does get swallowed up a bit. I'll even add the subcouplers - it helps to fill out the sound.</P>

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Tutti

                  [quote user="soubasse32"]


                  One of the newer pipe organs I helped design contains both a Tutti I and a Tutti II.</P>


                  These are programmable on every memory level, so are really like two extra generals (though I prefer not touse themthat way too often; or if I do, I make sure to reset them so they don't surprise any other organists).</P>


                  I programmed the default setting so that Tutti I is full to reeds and mixtures; Tutti II contains some sub-couplers, the loudest Solo reeds, and both 32' stops.</P>


                  I wouldn't hesitate to use the Tuttis on an electronic organ, as long as I had my foot on the expression pedals (prepared to shut them, if necessary)! [:D]</P>


                  My rule of thumb is - never play so loud that you cannot hear the congregation (though that also sort of depends on the placement of the console).</P>


                  If the console is placed very close to the speakers (or pipes) you may need to have a friend in the congregation help you decide on volume levels. This is also true if the congregation is unusually close or far away.</P>


                  I tend to use the same sort of settings for hymns, even if the congregation fluctuates in number. I moderate those settings with the expression pedals. I do this, as the congregation does get accustomed to hearing a certain volume level. Itry notto surprise them too often. [:D]</P>


                  I use the Tutti at my church only at Christmas and Easter - when we have a packed church, full choir, full orchestra, the organ does get swallowed up a bit. I'll even add the subcouplers - it helps to fill out the sound.</P>


                  [/quote]</P>


                  Soubasse32,</P>


                  A little off topic, but considering your posts that I have read over time, I would be interested in knowing more about the organ you play at church and the one you helped design.</P>


                  For safety reasons, of course, refrain from physical locations. I am interested in the tonal schemes, types of stops, number of manuals, the builder of the organs, etc. if you please.</P>


                  Bill</P>
                  <P mce_keep="true"></P>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Tutti



                    [quote user="radagast"]Soubasse32,</P>


                    A little off topic, but considering your posts that I have read over time, I would be interested in knowing more about the organ you play at church and the one you helped design. For safety reasons, of course, refrain from physical locations.I am interested in the tonal schemes, types of stops, number of manuals, the builder of the organs, etc. if you please.[/quote]</P>


                    [off-topic] I'm glad you are interested - I wish I could say more, but I really enjoy my anonymity;I feel I can be a bit more playful - or provocative - than I might be otherwise. [:D] I can reveal a few things but feel most comfortable leaving out builder's names.</P>


                    I've helped to design several instruments. [:)] Some built in the US, some not.</P>


                    I play a moderately-sized organ with five divisions. It was not built in the US, and during my tenure it was revoiced and rebuilt. It is electropneumatic, and can play an eclectic program convincingly.</P>


                    Allof the organsI've been involved with share(to varying degrees) attributes ofFrench romanticorgans, as this is a special interest of mine.</P>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Tutti

                      We are fortunate to have someone that isnt wanting to kinda push the instruments away. I go to a large southern baptist
                      church in small town(about 1600 members), and we have only one service
                      and it is traditional. The first sunday our minister of music was
                      there he asked me after the service why the organ was the same volume
                      as the piano. I told him that was the way it had been done for
                      years by previous organists, and if it ain't broke dont fix it...just
                      avoids ruffling any feathers. I was sitting at the organ at the
                      time, and he said if you pay what this church paid for an instrument
                      like this, it needs to be heard. So one Wednesday night he brough
                      the choir into the sanctuary, and we went through all the hymns for the
                      following Sunday, and I have had to play loudly ever since. It is
                      not so loud that it roars, but it is loud enough that people in our
                      church will actually sing out now, which is a MARVELOUS thing...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Tutti



                        Maggie,</P>


                        Thank God for churches and MoM's like yours! It's heartening to know that a Southern Baptist church can embrace traditional worship without reservation, without apology. My own church (also SBC) does the same, and I am pleased to be able to play the organ to full effect, raising its voice in glorious song with full organ andmixtures (and even reeds sometimes) that soar throughout the sanctuary and carry the congregation along in vibrant hymns.</P>


                        So sad that you and I are among an apparently shrinking minority, as many SBC churches (and other varieties of Baptists too) are selling out body and soul to popular-style music that they think will appeal to the masses. I have news for them -- the masses won't like that either, at least not for very long. Give them a taste of rock and roll, and next year they'll be clamoring for hard rock and heavy metal. Whatcha gonna do then? Cave in again? How far down that road are we willing to go?</P>


                        Keep up the blessed work!</P>


                        John</P>
                        <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                        John
                        ----------
                        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Tutti



                          John,</p>

                          It is very sad to see this happen. I have
                          only been playing the organ for a few years. I have been
                          attending this church since 89, that means i started attending at the
                          ripe old of age of 4. Since it is such a small town, the whole
                          big church in a small town thing always comes in, and some seem
                          intimidated. I dont see it, there again im used too it.</p>

                          I
                          now teach high school here and was told by one of my students that the
                          people at First Baptist dont worship correctly. So, without
                          phrasing it where I wouldnt lose my job, I told her that there is no
                          wrong way to worship God. Everyone has their preferences and I
                          just would appreciate if they would respect the way we do it as we have
                          them.</p>

                          Anyway, I see where you are going with the whole
                          "contemporary" thing. I see it as a fad, and it worries me that
                          people will try to force that at our church, and people will just not
                          allow it. However, in writing this, the largest population at our
                          church are people my age with small children, which tells me that even
                          young people still appreciate the traditional worship services.</p>

                          Let
                          me know your email sometime, and maybe we can exchange ideas or even
                          dillemas about the organ. Being so young and playing such a large
                          instrument still intimidates me, and a lot of people I know dont
                          understand where im coming from.

                          </p>





                          </p>

                          </p>

                          </p>

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Tutti



                            Maggie,</P>


                            You must be the same age as my daughter, born in 1985. She and my son, who is 3 years younger, would find a kindred spirit with you, as theyare notat all impressed with contemporary worship. Not all their peers see it that way, but at least a sizeable number of young adults today are completely turned off by the happy-clappytrash and the cheapening of music in church in the name of "growth" and "reaching new people."</P>


                            I think it is my own generation (boomers) who are actually responsible for this mess, and my peers who promote this mess have the mistaken idea that they are "saving" the church! I just hope there is something left of it when we all finally die off and let this silly fad pass. Thank goodness there are young people like you who are picking up the ball that we boomers evidently dropped!</P>


                            Just don't let anyone tell you, no matter how persuasively, that the grand and glorious hymns and wondrous music of the church needs to be cast aside in favor of something that "appeals to the masses." That which is truly of God may not "appeal to the masses." In fact, it may only resonate in the hearts of those who truly knowGod. Stick to your guns.</P>


                            John</P>
                            <P mce_keep="true"></P>
                            John
                            ----------
                            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                            Comment

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