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**Guest** · 01-31-2008, 08:40 PM

Re: Tutti



What is Tutti II? ffff? I've never seen/heard one before -learn something new everyday! Anyhoo, I have to say that was bold indeed, in a good way. If it's what they want, then by all means, give it to them! Just think, how many eyes you may have opened to the congregation about how grand an organ can be. Sure, it may be just an old Rodgers, but the principal is the same. I'm all for it!

con moderazione. [:D]

**Guest** · 01-31-2008, 09:05 PM

Re: Tutti

"just an old rodgers?" It is actually a very good organ, and
it should be for what we paid for it. Still sounded like it did
the first day we had it, and can still shake the chandeliers in the
church, if the guy that played it that day returns. I wont play
it that loud, unless im there alone. No, it is nothing like a
great pipe organ that we looked at, but it was about 600,000 bucks less
than what it would cost to have a new pipe organ installed. So we
went with the digital organ, and have been very VERY pleased.



I honestly, cannot explain what Tutti II is, I just know
that it is a very bold, and full sound....can sound GREAT, in
moderation!

**nullogik** · 02-01-2008, 02:25 AM

Re: Tutti

Never seen Tutti I and II, but I have seen Crescendo I & II (or A & B) on Allens.

**jimmywilliams** · 02-01-2008, 05:26 AM

Re: Tutti

tutti = sforzando = "full organ." The custom Allen electronic/pipe organ I take lessons on also has two "flavors" of tutti. "Full organ" can mean different things depending on the style of music you are playing, and adding certain stops into the mix can actually make the organ sound "bad", so a lot of the time the tutti will not literally"pull out all the stops" on the instrument.

**jbird604** · 02-01-2008, 06:24 AM

Re: Tutti

Tutti I and Tutti II are commonly found on Allen and Rodgers organs. A bit of a misnomer, I suppose, since "Tutti" means "everything" and how can you have "everything" and then a different "everything" . . .

But, there's "tutti" . . . and then there's "TUTTI!!!!" . . . The first tutti will generally bemost ofthe foundations up through mixturesand light reeds. Second tutti will add 32' and big reeds. Actually, modern digitals allow you to create your own tutti combinations, so they could be anything you want.

Maggie, your MoM may indeed be encouraging you to put more oomph into the organ generally. And that is a really good thing. You are so fortunate NOT to have a MoM wanting you to tone the organ down so the keyboards and guitars and amateur wind players won't be overshadowed.

John

**m&m's** · 02-01-2008, 08:20 AM

Re: Tutti

[quote user="jbird604"]

But, there's "tutti" . . . and then there's "TUTTI!!!!" . . . The first tutti will generally bemost ofthe foundations up through mixturesand light reeds. Second tutti will add 32' and big reeds. Actually, modern digitals allow you to create your own tutti combinations, so they could be anything you want.

John

[/quote]

You are correct, generally speaking. However, on some organs "Tutti I" may be all flues except celestes, and "Tutti II" then would be the same, but adding reeds.

**soubasse32** · 02-01-2008, 10:49 AM

Re: Tutti

One of the newer pipe organs I helped design contains both a Tutti I and a Tutti II.

These are programmable on every memory level, so are really like two extra generals (though I prefer not touse themthat way too often; or if I do, I make sure to reset them so they don't surprise any other organists).

I programmed the default setting so that Tutti I is full to reeds and mixtures; Tutti II contains some sub-couplers, the loudest Solo reeds, and both 32' stops.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Tuttis on an electronic organ, as long as I had my foot on the expression pedals (prepared to shut them, if necessary)! [:D]

My rule of thumb is - never play so loud that you cannot hear the congregation (though that also sort of depends on the placement of the console).

If the console is placed very close to the speakers (or pipes) you may need to have a friend in the congregation help you decide on volume levels. This is also true if the congregation is unusually close or far away.

I tend to use the same sort of settings for hymns, even if the congregation fluctuates in number. I moderate those settings with the expression pedals. I do this, as the congregation does get accustomed to hearing a certain volume level. Itry notto surprise them too often. [:D]

I use the Tutti at my church only at Christmas and Easter - when we have a packed church, full choir, full orchestra, the organ does get swallowed up a bit. I'll even add the subcouplers - it helps to fill out the sound.

**radagast** · 02-01-2008, 12:54 PM

Re: Tutti

[quote user="soubasse32"]

One of the newer pipe organs I helped design contains both a Tutti I and a Tutti II.

These are programmable on every memory level, so are really like two extra generals (though I prefer not touse themthat way too often; or if I do, I make sure to reset them so they don't surprise any other organists).

I programmed the default setting so that Tutti I is full to reeds and mixtures; Tutti II contains some sub-couplers, the loudest Solo reeds, and both 32' stops.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the Tuttis on an electronic organ, as long as I had my foot on the expression pedals (prepared to shut them, if necessary)! [:D]

My rule of thumb is - never play so loud that you cannot hear the congregation (though that also sort of depends on the placement of the console).

If the console is placed very close to the speakers (or pipes) you may need to have a friend in the congregation help you decide on volume levels. This is also true if the congregation is unusually close or far away.

I tend to use the same sort of settings for hymns, even if the congregation fluctuates in number. I moderate those settings with the expression pedals. I do this, as the congregation does get accustomed to hearing a certain volume level. Itry notto surprise them too often. [:D]

I use the Tutti at my church only at Christmas and Easter - when we have a packed church, full choir, full orchestra, the organ does get swallowed up a bit. I'll even add the subcouplers - it helps to fill out the sound.

[/quote]

Soubasse32,

A little off topic, but considering your posts that I have read over time, I would be interested in knowing more about the organ you play at church and the one you helped design.

For safety reasons, of course, refrain from physical locations. I am interested in the tonal schemes, types of stops, number of manuals, the builder of the organs, etc. if you please.

Bill

**soubasse32** · 02-01-2008, 02:08 PM

Re: Tutti

[quote user="radagast"]Soubasse32,

A little off topic, but considering your posts that I have read over time, I would be interested in knowing more about the organ you play at church and the one you helped design. For safety reasons, of course, refrain from physical locations.I am interested in the tonal schemes, types of stops, number of manuals, the builder of the organs, etc. if you please.[/quote]

[off-topic] I'm glad you are interested - I wish I could say more, but I really enjoy my anonymity;I feel I can be a bit more playful - or provocative - than I might be otherwise. [:D] I can reveal a few things but feel most comfortable leaving out builder's names.

I've helped to design several instruments. [:)] Some built in the US, some not.

I play a moderately-sized organ with five divisions. It was not built in the US, and during my tenure it was revoiced and rebuilt. It is electropneumatic, and can play an eclectic program convincingly.

Allof the organsI've been involved with share(to varying degrees) attributes ofFrench romanticorgans, as this is a special interest of mine.

**Guest** · 02-03-2008, 03:30 PM

Re: Tutti

We are fortunate to have someone that isnt wanting to kinda push the instruments away. I go to a large southern baptist
church in small town(about 1600 members), and we have only one service
and it is traditional. The first sunday our minister of music was
there he asked me after the service why the organ was the same volume
as the piano. I told him that was the way it had been done for
years by previous organists, and if it ain't broke dont fix it...just
avoids ruffling any feathers. I was sitting at the organ at the
time, and he said if you pay what this church paid for an instrument
like this, it needs to be heard. So one Wednesday night he brough
the choir into the sanctuary, and we went through all the hymns for the
following Sunday, and I have had to play loudly ever since. It is
not so loud that it roars, but it is loud enough that people in our
church will actually sing out now, which is a MARVELOUS thing...

**jbird604** · 02-03-2008, 06:27 PM

Re: Tutti

Maggie,

Thank God for churches and MoM's like yours! It's heartening to know that a Southern Baptist church can embrace traditional worship without reservation, without apology. My own church (also SBC) does the same, and I am pleased to be able to play the organ to full effect, raising its voice in glorious song with full organ andmixtures (and even reeds sometimes) that soar throughout the sanctuary and carry the congregation along in vibrant hymns.

So sad that you and I are among an apparently shrinking minority, as many SBC churches (and other varieties of Baptists too) are selling out body and soul to popular-style music that they think will appeal to the masses. I have news for them -- the masses won't like that either, at least not for very long. Give them a taste of rock and roll, and next year they'll be clamoring for hard rock and heavy metal. Whatcha gonna do then? Cave in again? How far down that road are we willing to go?

Keep up the blessed work!

John

**Guest** · 02-03-2008, 09:05 PM

Re: Tutti

John,

It is very sad to see this happen. I have
only been playing the organ for a few years. I have been
attending this church since 89, that means i started attending at the
ripe old of age of 4. Since it is such a small town, the whole
big church in a small town thing always comes in, and some seem
intimidated. I dont see it, there again im used too it.

I
now teach high school here and was told by one of my students that the
people at First Baptist dont worship correctly. So, without
phrasing it where I wouldnt lose my job, I told her that there is no
wrong way to worship God. Everyone has their preferences and I
just would appreciate if they would respect the way we do it as we have
them.

Anyway, I see where you are going with the whole
"contemporary" thing. I see it as a fad, and it worries me that
people will try to force that at our church, and people will just not
allow it. However, in writing this, the largest population at our
church are people my age with small children, which tells me that even
young people still appreciate the traditional worship services.

Let
me know your email sometime, and maybe we can exchange ideas or even
dillemas about the organ. Being so young and playing such a large
instrument still intimidates me, and a lot of people I know dont
understand where im coming from.

**jbird604** · 02-04-2008, 04:26 PM

Re: Tutti

Maggie,

You must be the same age as my daughter, born in 1985. She and my son, who is 3 years younger, would find a kindred spirit with you, as theyare notat all impressed with contemporary worship. Not all their peers see it that way, but at least a sizeable number of young adults today are completely turned off by the happy-clappytrash and the cheapening of music in church in the name of "growth" and "reaching new people."

I think it is my own generation (boomers) who are actually responsible for this mess, and my peers who promote this mess have the mistaken idea that they are "saving" the church! I just hope there is something left of it when we all finally die off and let this silly fad pass. Thank goodness there are young people like you who are picking up the ball that we boomers evidently dropped!

Just don't let anyone tell you, no matter how persuasively, that the grand and glorious hymns and wondrous music of the church needs to be cast aside in favor of something that "appeals to the masses." That which is truly of God may not "appeal to the masses." In fact, it may only resonate in the hearts of those who truly knowGod. Stick to your guns.

John

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