Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

[Rob_Charles]

Hi All,</p>

In one of the Churches I play in they have the Opus 1105 model had it now for about 5 years or so. The Organ itself only has Internal Speakers which are mainly shite if you ask me. There has been an ongoing saga with my Church to get them to see sense to try and do something about it and that is to have some form of separate sound from the organ, as it is now I feel is lacking in sound especially when you have a full Church as all of the sound comes directly at me and not in the Church.</p>

The Organ was purchased from Makin Organs UK and in my view should have had external speakers with it. And a while ago someone from the Church had Makins Down to the Church to "Dampen the sound" which I'm not impressed with it has made it worst, there is no "Bass" and everything seems rather weak.</p>

I questioned Makin Organs about the possibility of having speakers fitted to the organ, and in my view I'm not prepared to gamble with Makin Organs they tell me that the 1105 Organ was built between 1989-1993 as a home practice organ and not a CHURCH ORGAN to have speakers fitted (UL Speakers) would cost £3,000 more than what the organ is worth, its simply not worth the investment.</p>

I'm considering a much cheaper budget of around the £1,000 area and have apporached two Organ builders who would be more than happy to help.</p>


I want to give something back to the Church to raise this money by doing a series of Organ Recitals.</p>


I Will however do a video of this Organ I'm talking about on the weekend and Ile be posting it on my youtube page.</p>

</p>

What do you think on this?</p>

</p>

Many thanks</p>

Rob
</p>

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



"The Organ itself only has Internal Speakers which are mainly shite if you ask me."</P>


Probably the speaker material is too compliant and thus the sound lacks definition(?).</P>


[;)][:$]</P>

[nullogik]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

So this instrument has no external outputs that you could link speakers too?

[radagast]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

[quote user="Rob_Charles"]


...to have speakers fitted (UL Speakers) would cost £3,000 more than what the organ is worth, its simply not worth the investment.</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>



[/quote]</P>


Pardon me for saying this, but that is pathetic. The organ is worth that much LESS than speakers? Doesn't say much for the brand name.</P>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



Hi All.</p>

</p>

I Forgot to mention as well here that this organ does have external speaker sockets, it also has an option to have the speakers on or off which would make life allot easier. </p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">Makin Organ Builders have</span> <span style="font-weight: bold;">suggested me these speakers: </span></p>

http://www.johannus.com/wm.cgi?id=751;ws=9</p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">3 x 110</span></p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">1 x 3000 for the bass</span></p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">I think its fair to say its not worth spending £3,000 we brought the organ for that price second hand from them.</span></p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">So incidentally its fair to say that I should be looking for something far far cheaper that does exactly the same sound one organ builder has quoted me £1,050 and the other £1,150 so thats the sort of budget to me is a sensible approach
.</span></p>

</p>

<span style="font-weight: bold;">cheers</span>
</p>

[Guest]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



If this organ was first built in 1989, then it is at least 18 years old, and may really <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-style: italic;">not</span> be worth putting 3000 pounds into at this point. At today's exchange rate, this is about $5800.00 US. A nearly-new digital 2-manual Johannus Opus 20 with separate speaker setup with pipe facade was recently offered in the US on Ebay starting at $16000 and the instrument was only a few years old.  New, it sold for about $24000.  I do not think that we can expect an electronic organ of 18 years or so to be worth a large amount of cash, even if built by the great gold and greatest bestest organ builder of all times and all places. </p>

 If, however, you want to have bigger/better speakers, then I would suspect that any good musically sensitive technician could help you.  For my Opus 30 (2005), I wanted a larger and separate speaker for my home for the pedal channel (The Opus 30 has 4 channels as it is the "budget line" instrument and OK for my living room).  We elected to disconnect the "internal" wires to the pedal pot speaker and simply redirect them to the external speaker.  Depending on the level/quality of output, you might want to channel the outputs through an external amp, mixer and/or external reverb unit (such as an Alessis or similar). You might start by simply taking off the back panel and having a look at the wires that go to the internal speakers (how many speakers are there, for example?). Like having an older car, if you like the instrument, and it is in good condition even being rather old (and I believe pre-digital), then just do the math as to what you can afford.  </p>

I would suggest that we also be cautious about "brand name" bashing, but it is apparent that some of us are in the business of bashing Johannus frequently.  Brand-name bashing will do nothing to help this gentleman with his question.  I have heard "shite" installations of about every non-pipe brand as well as pipe instruments that were not worth the cost it would take to cart them away, but this is not helpful. </p>

 As for speakers, I think that the advice is to get the best that you can afford and better quality usually equals higher cost.   </p>

 Jeffrey Shy, Mesa, Arizona ( I own a Johannus Opus 30 with an external speaker setup (more than just the pedals, actually) for my own home.  No secrets from me, and I am not a dealer nor associated with one nor under employ or contract with any maker or maintenance organization for any brand.)</p>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



Well all see and hear for yourself: [:)]</p><font class="p" color="#cc0000"> </font>http://www.youtube.com/results?uploaded=d&amp;search_query=RobCharles1981


</p>

</p>

[davidecasteel]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



I have listened to several of the videos. I have no doubt that the organ sound (for you, if for no others) would be improved with an external speaker system. For one thing, you are located in a corner with the internal speakers (probably) firing toward you and the 2 walls. Not only does that bombard you directly with the sound, it produces serious resonances (which can be heard in the first video). From the view of the nave seen in the videos, it would appear that you might be seating about 5 persons wide on each side of the aisle, or 10 parishioners per row. If they sit very close together you might get 12 per row. I have no idea how long the nave is, but I'd guess maybe 10 to 15 rows maximum, giving your space a seating capacity of between 100 and 180 people. A space of that size does not need really huge speakers, so a modest external system should be possible. The internal speakers are, in fact, reaching where the camera was placed--the big problem is not that there is not enough sound, but that so much of it is being directed at the organist. Another problem is that the sound is being introduced into the nave near the floor, when it would be better for it to sound from higher in the building. It is not possible to see the rest of the nave in those videos, but the front near the chancel area isvery attractive and I would personally hate to see it cluttered up with organ speakers. If external speakers are agreed to be needed, I think I'd be trying to find someplace high up on the back wall of the nave for them, and probably play with some sound coming from the internal set along with the sound from the externals. All that would need some experimentation, of course.</P>


My humble opinion.</P>


David</P>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

[quote user="davidecasteel"]

I have listened to several of the videos. I have no doubt that the organ sound (for you, if for no others) would be improved with an external speaker system. For one thing, you are located in a corner with the internal speakers (probably) firing toward you and the 2 walls. Not only does that bombard you directly with the sound, it produces serious resonances (which can be heard in the first video). From the view of the nave seen in the videos, it would appear that you might be seating about 5 persons wide on each side of the aisle, or 10 parishioners per row. If they sit very close together you might get 12 per row. I have no idea how long the nave is, but I'd guess maybe 10 to 15 rows maximum, giving your space a seating capacity of between 100 and 180 people. A space of that size does not need really huge speakers, so a modest external system should be possible. The internal speakers are, in fact, reaching where the camera was placed--the big problem is not that there is not enough sound, but that so much of it is being directed at the organist. Another problem is that the sound is being introduced into the nave near the floor, when it would be better for it to sound from higher in the building. It is not possible to see the rest of the nave in those videos, but the front near the chancel area isvery attractive and I would personally hate to see it cluttered up with organ speakers. If external speakers are agreed to be needed, I think I'd be trying to find someplace high up on the back wall of the nave for them, and probably play with some sound coming from the internal set along with the sound from the externals. All that would need some experimentation, of course.</p>


My humble opinion.</p>


David</p>

[/quote]</p>

</p>

Thanks David for your good advice there. As you say the speakers are pointing in my direction which doesn't help at all would like to see them placed somewhere suitable in the church for a better spread of sound.</p>

We on a service have around 15-25 people, but the church itself can seat 60-70, The Aisle is not that big its a very short one, the further back you go the more "fainter" the sound becomes in the organ itself. </p>

The only possible space really would be somewhere in the roof space or at the top of the side walls.</p>

</p>

But I'm looking forward to hearing of others oppions</p>

Cheers</p>

Rob

</p>

</p>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



There are new videos uploaded by me on youtube - RobCharles1981</p>

</p>

Cheers</p>

[Vercus]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



Hello Rob,</p>

I agree, external speakers are definitely mandatory for a church organ. For a home organ too in my opinion. Ideally, it would be nice to have two speakers on the front wall and a subwoofer for the pedals. How that would work into the church architecture is sort of up to them. Sound wise it would be nice to spread them out so you can have a wider sound stage, especially if this organ splits up the sound between great and swell. That would allow you to echo between them, or just have a greater sense of separation when using them together. Did the church have a pipe organ at one time? If so, if there are chambers, that could be a good spot for speakers, depending on where it's located. Do the prices you mentioned include installation?</p>

-Jon</p>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

[quote user="Vercus"]

Hello Rob,</p>

I agree, external speakers are definitely mandatory for a church organ. For a home organ too in my opinion. Ideally, it would be nice to have two speakers on the front wall and a subwoofer for the pedals. How that would work into the church architecture is sort of up to them. Sound wise it would be nice to spread them out so you can have a wider sound stage, especially if this organ splits up the sound between great and swell. That would allow you to echo between them, or just have a greater sense of separation when using them together. Did the church have a pipe organ at one time? If so, if there are chambers, that could be a good spot for speakers, depending on where it's located. Do the prices you mentioned include installation?</p>

-Jon</p>

[/quote] </p>

</p>

Hi John Nice to hear from you.</p>

</p>

I'm not sure about the Church architecture the only place I can think of really is on the side walls to house 4 Cabinets, Before the Johannus Organ came along before it was a Harmonium Organ which had been there since the 1960's!! I can just image what the Organ would sound like with the external speakers on the organ it would sound so much better rather than having the internal speakers on all of the time.</p>

With the Organ Builders One would charge £1,500 (All In) the other would charge about £200 for the istallation if my memory serves me correctly.</p>

</p>

Thanks</p>


Rob
</p>

</p>

</p>

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??

Bump!! [:D]

[Rob_Charles]

Re: Johannus Opus 1105 - External Speakers??



Hi all it has been a long time since I posted here so let me give you the updates on this situation.</p>

The Church had a PCC meeting in January and for speakers its going to be looked into on my behalf. Somethings going to happen and prove sucessful so watch this space!
</p>