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Need Some advice about an Allen ADC-6000-DKC

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  • #16
    Congratulations on your purchase. It will be a great addition to your worship program!

    Professional piano/organ instrument movers are worth every penny they charge. My local Allen organ tech gave me the name of the mover he uses and I was quite pleased with their work since they were used to handling heavy consoles and speaker cabinets. Those HC speakers are just over 80 pounds each and awkward to move, especially if they are in the basement and need to come up steps.

    The same company moved my ADC-5300 (in the smaller "D" console) with 18 HC speakers twice, with not a scratch on the console or a ding in the exposed speaker cones. The second move of my ADC organ was across the state of Colorado - 5 hours of driving each way for the movers. I received an estimate for the move and they came in slightly under their price since the loadout in Grand Junction was very easy and took less time than the estimate.

    I would not risk a DIY move with something this nice. Another benefit of using professional movers is the insurance they carry on your items as they are being moved. Have them acknowledge the replacement value of the organ and speakers when you arrange the move.
    Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand name.

    Main: Allen RMWTHEA.3 with Rocky Mount Electra-Piano, Allen 423-C + Gyro cabinet, Britson Opus OEM38, Saville Series IV Opus 209, Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI
    Lower Level: Hammond 9812H with roll player, Gulbransen Rialto, Roland E-200, Vintage Moog
    Shop: Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with 18 speakers and MIDI, 4 Allen theater organ tone cabinets (including 3 Gyros, but don't call me Gyro Gearloose!).

    Comment


    • #17
      Greetings All,

      I apologize for the delay in getting back to everyone. I really do appreciate all of the help you've given me. Things got "crazy busy", then the Northeast got blasted by this storm, and just about simultaneously I came down with an intestinal bug of some sort. But, enough about me! LOL

      Did I check every stop, key, pedal, etc., etc. on the organ? No, I didn't. To be honest, some of you had detected my inner desires to acquire this organ and I would be fibbing if that wasn't true. But, I DID need to be shown that it was in the condition it was advertised. If, in any way, the seller had appeared to be disingenuous, I would've been willing to walk. But he was actually spot on in his description. Quoting myself from above:

      "The organ is in beautiful condition. It DOES have 16 speakers: 12 Allen's (a mix of HC-12's & HC-15's) and 4 large Behringers....they are ALL connected in his home. The seller is/was an organ builder and his work is meticulous. He wired it into his home and ALL of the connections are clearly labelled, both on the amps/speakers/etc. and the cable ends. Truly amazing! The Allen speakers HAVE been rebuilt."

      I had him play it first as I knew he was far more familiar with it than I and observed no unwanted sounds. Then I fiddled with it a bit, trying random stops and presets. Everything seemed to work properly. I did look at the backside of it. The electronics were all clean and apparently well maintained, not dust laden as would normally be expected. All of the wiring was meticulously labelled using a quality cable labelling instrument. Not just pieces of masking tape written on with a Sharpie! (OK...I WILL plead guilty to doing that on occasion!!!! LOL)

      I didn't feel comfortable opening up the cage, but to be honest, I saw no reason to do that as everything seemed so pristine. I asked him about the leaking battery issue and he said he hadn't heard of that. When I looked at the cage closer, I noticed a red/black twisted pair of wires emanating from one of the right-most holes in the back panel of the cage leading down to what looked like a battery pack on the bottom of the console. I assumed this was the relocated battery for the cards in question. This organ had spent most of it's life in a large church in Florida and apparently was regularly and well cared for.

      A bit about the seller: The seller, being an organ builder, has numerous contacts in "the business" and when he informed them he was looking for a decent instrument, they highly recommended this organ to him, stating that it had been well maintained and was in perfect condition. (By the way, this organ replaced a pipe organ that he HAD in his house, which he donated to a local theater. I just can't imagine a pipe organ in a house, but he had the holes cut in the first floor from the basement for the long pipes to extend through. Only a serious organist would do something like that! LOL) The seller only had this Allen organ about two years and circumstances have now led him to decide he wants to downsize from his house to a condo and needs to part with the organ. As I mentioned above, he did have all of the Allen speakers refoamed. We talked some about his pipe-organ building and being a trained theater organist. He had some very interesting photos of various theater pipe organs across the country as well as incredibly ornate theater sconces and chandeliers he's collected over the years. A VERY unique home. An amazing man. Unfortunately, a horrific accident a while back has left him with some difficulties with his playing. When he sat down to play he said "I don't play as well as I used to!" To which I replied "None of us do!!!" in full agreement. He really wants this organ to have a good home, where it will be heard as it was built to be heard, and he felt our church would indeed provide that home. His sincerity is genuine, and that was important to me. His offer, from what I have seen, was reasonable and I didn't want to insult him by trying to negotiate a lower price. (For comparison, a similar sized Allen (a theater model) is being offered by our nearest Allen Organ Dealer for almost 4 times the price he is asking, with quite fewer speakers.) I believe we respected each other in the negotiation process, and that was important to both of us as well.

      As I had mentioned, we are opting to have it professionally moved. I just couldn't live with myself if something was damaged. This truly is a beautiful instrument. Plus, the sellers house would be a bit of a challenge. I certainly wouldn't want to risk damage to his property, and as was said, this way there's insurance to cover any damages, should they occur. Plus, when I saw those speakers in person...OMG....they're pretty decent size, so with this new insight, we decided that having it moved professionally is the way to go.

      Our church was supposed to have a vote on the purchase this past weekend, but as luck would have it, the snow storm resulted in the pastor cancelling our services. So I expect the vote to be taken next weekend. I sent a summary of my trip last Tuesday out to the key members of the church and the overall response was incredibly positive. So, I don't expect any issues.

      I'm hoping that moving and bouncing the beast 2/3 of the way across Massachusetts won't unsettle any cards or connections. But frankly, that's not a big deal. I've read several posts here about reseating cards and cables & such, tweaking pots, etc., and I expect to do that.

      I'm hoping we'll be able to get the organ by mid-late February and that would give us time to get it ready for a Palm Sunday debut...with any luck. I have a week of vacation in mid-March, so THAT should help, too. Oh, plus I have to learn how to PLAY the thing!!! LOL

      I'm sure I'll be back on here pestering those of you who have volunteered documentation about the organ. I really do appreciate the guidance you've offered. It helped me go into this situation with open eyes and realistic expectations. Yes, it might have appeared that I had "rose colored glasses", but my "skeptical side" usually keeps that in check. In this case, I have confidence we are proceeding in the right direction.

      Well, I'll let you all go now. I'll address other questions if you wish. I do have some pics, but they're really not that great. That organ is HUGE and it pretty much took up an entire room in his house. That was nice, but hard to get any great shots. Oh...I almost forgot....the speakers! He started playing and I heard the sound emanating from the next room. But...there were no speakers visible in the next room. Then he showed me. That's the room the pipes were installed and there was about an 8'x1.5' hole in the floor, now covered with an ornate cast-iron look grate. Down below, in the basement, is a WALL of 11 of the Allen speakers and the 4 Behringers!!! Unbelievable. They were pointed to the basement's concrete wall and then the sound rose up through the floor. It was like the sound came from the entire HOUSE! We went downstairs to check it out. Again, everything wired so meticulously. I LOVE to see good craftsmanship, and this was it. The 12th Allen speaker was his antiphonal speaker out in his 4-season room. All in all, quite an impressive installation. I actually feel a bit saddened to know it has to be disassembled, knowing all of the work he put into it to get it set up. But, as they say, "That's Life".

      Thanks again,

      ~Rick





      Comment


      • Larrytow
        Larrytow commented
        Editing a comment
        Rick, Congratulations on "your" new acquisition !!! That was a nice write up too. I knew ( cause I know the signs for myself rather well ) that you were determined to get it. And ya, we want to see the photos.

      • Larrytow
        Larrytow commented
        Editing a comment
        One more thing I forgot to mention the other day : Don't worry too much about the bouncing around in the moving truck. Most trucks that organ movers ( piano as well ) use use Air Ride suspensions these days. Those ride really nice and smoothly. Cushy even !

    • #18
      Great story! You made a fantastic deal, and seem to be doing everything right here. So glad you're hiring a mover too. It's just a bonus when you get to meet someone like that with such a marvelous connection to the organ world.

      Just last week we went out to service the ADC6000-DKC that I mentioned, which I sold and installed in a very large church in the mid-80's. It is still one of the most amazing organs I have ever heard anywhere. There are a few larger Allens in the state now, including a four-manual Quantum, but I honestly think the 6000 outshines the Quantum and all the rest in just about every way. Simply a triumph of Allen design and engineering. You are going to love it and you will keep on discovering lovely new sounds and new ways to combine them for many years to come.
      John
      ----------
      Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
      Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
      Shop: Bunch of organs in varying conditions, some good, some not...
      Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

      Comment


      • #19
        Good news all around and nice to hear about the remote battery pack for the AV-1 alterable voice card. I took a chance on a recent ebay purchase and wound up with the official Allen AV-1 battery pack replacement kit. It sounds like that is what you have. I'll scan the documentation and take pics of the unit to post on a new thread.
        Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand name.

        Main: Allen RMWTHEA.3 with Rocky Mount Electra-Piano, Allen 423-C + Gyro cabinet, Britson Opus OEM38, Saville Series IV Opus 209, Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI
        Lower Level: Hammond 9812H with roll player, Gulbransen Rialto, Roland E-200, Vintage Moog
        Shop: Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with 18 speakers and MIDI, 4 Allen theater organ tone cabinets (including 3 Gyros, but don't call me Gyro Gearloose!).

        Comment


        • #20
          Hi All,

          I've been away for a while, work's been crazy busy. I did want to provide a brief update of where we are in the process. In the last couple of weeks, we have made arrangements for payment and transfer of the organ to it's new home.

          Assuming nothing crops up to jinx the situation (Mother Nature probably being the most likely culprit), we are scheduled to take delivery of the organ next Friday. Very exciting times indeed!

          Today after work (weather permitting...we have an impending snow event looming over our heads today) I'm going to make the measurements to verify that the ADC-6000 will fit in the area we have the current TC-1 organ. I believe it will, though it will require relocating our PA equipment, but that's no big deal. I'm also need to measure distances to the intended locations of the speakers. Heck...I'll have to check to see if all of the speakers will even fit up in the loft area.

          I'm also going to need to make space to relocate the TC-1 so it'll be functional while I get the ADC-6000 set up. I told the pastor that we wouldn't be without an organ. I also told him that I should have it all connected & tweaked by Palm Sunday (April 14), so I do have some time. It'll be helpful that I have a week off from work in the middle of March, so that should give me plenty of time to get it done (famous last words!) LOL

          I have read many of the posts on here about removing and cleaning the card contacts as well as the adjustment pots and my intention is to do just that once the organ has been installed and connected to it's speakers.

          To be honest, my biggest concern isn't the "technical stuff". It's learning how to play "the great beast"! LOL I lost usable eyesight in my left eye a few years back due to a torn, then detached retina. (Funy thing is that it happened immediately after I finished playing a church service about this time in February 4 years ago. I tried NOT to take it as a "sign" that I shouldn't play anymore! LOL) But that hinders my ability to quickly see & identify the writing on stops & tabs, so memorizing locations of such things generally works best when it's require to make rapid adjustments. Anyway, just learning the location of all the stops, programming the presets, and teaching my right foot it now has some added tasks to take care of, all are going to take some time.

          But, I think I should be able to figure most of that out for a "Grand Unveiling" on Palm Sunday and then Easter Sunday. I'm sure I won't feel fully confident on it for quite some time, but I know it'll come with practice. Pretty much the entire congregation is excited with the acquisition of the new organ.

          Ok, enough for now. I'll keep you in the loop.

          Again, I appreciate all of the comments and encouragement. This forum is a GREAT resource!

          ~Rick

          Comment


          • #21
            Thanks for the update Rick. We're all pulling for you to have a successful installation and grand unveiling. And you can count on the ADC owners and organ techs on here to help if you run into any issues with the new installation. When I first got my ADC-5300 I spent many enjoyable hours at the console getting familiar with the stops and setting combinations.

            As you measure for new speaker cable runs, remember to use 2-conductor cables, one for each audio channel, not multi-conductor cable. The brown jacketed cable Allen uses has a gentle twist to the conductors inside the jacket but it is not a twisted pair cable. Don't use zip cord or other parallel conductor cable.

            If you double the speakers on each channel, you don't need to run separate cables from the amplifier output for each speaker. There are older threads on the forum about distance versus wire conductor size but if you post your measurements, people on here can advise about that.

            I hope the weather cooperates with your schedule!
            Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand name.

            Main: Allen RMWTHEA.3 with Rocky Mount Electra-Piano, Allen 423-C + Gyro cabinet, Britson Opus OEM38, Saville Series IV Opus 209, Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI
            Lower Level: Hammond 9812H with roll player, Gulbransen Rialto, Roland E-200, Vintage Moog
            Shop: Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with 18 speakers and MIDI, 4 Allen theater organ tone cabinets (including 3 Gyros, but don't call me Gyro Gearloose!).

            Comment


          • #22
            The two references are re S-100 amps. Does the same apply to a ADC amps?
            Sam

            Allen ADC5400, Allen ADC4000, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
            Past---Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

            Comment


            • toodles
              toodles commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes it does.

          • #23
            Thanks for the info. I have some wire pulling to do!
            Sam

            Allen ADC5400, Allen ADC4000, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
            Past---Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

            Comment


            • Admin
              Admin commented
              Editing a comment
              You may not have a problem. Whether you do will depend on the cable you used and the length, with longer lengths more likely to have a problem.

          • #24
            I do have a problem. Used 4 conductor 16 gauge wire. Have noticed amp #1 heating up. Thought that I was doing a good thing to use new wire. And, it's in the wall of a new renovation. Bummer. But glad that I saw AllenAnalog's post--- saved my bacon!
            Sam

            Allen ADC5400, Allen ADC4000, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
            Past---Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

            Comment


            • Admin
              Admin commented
              Editing a comment
              You can show your appreciation by Liking his post.

          • #25
            Done---and Thanks again.
            Sam

            Allen ADC5400, Allen ADC4000, 1910 Chickering QuarterGrand
            Past---Galanti Praeludium II, Yamaha Clavinova, Hammond A102, W.W. Putnam Reed Organ

            Comment


            • AllenAnalog
              AllenAnalog commented
              Editing a comment
              You're welcome, Sam. Glad this post was timely for you before there was damage done to your amps.

          • #26
            Others may have seen my previous posts on this conductor thing. I was advised that if you run more than one conductor pair in parallel your amps may overheat due to oscillation. Digging into this, I found the problem is caused by the feedback loop internal to the amp( most amplifiers use some form of this). The parallel signal from the other amp is capacitively coupled into the adjacent one due to the wires running together. That "confuses" the feedback loop causing the amp to oscillate. I ordered ferrite cores to suppress this. However it seems that the ambient temperature affects this, as I did not install the suppression yet, and now the organist says all is fine! I suspect when the season heats up, I 'll be there to add those cores.

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