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Rodgers 588: Line out vs. Main ...

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  • Rodgers 588: Line out vs. Main ...

    Hello there,

    today I discovered something that is sort of amazing:
    At our Rodgers 588, the Line Out is only active if the Main OFF piston is pressed. That means: I can not get a signal simultaneously on the main speakers and on the Line Out connectors (which is a pity for recording reasons).
    Is this the default behaviour? And is there a way to enable the line out even if Main is on?

    thanks,
    Jesaiah

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jesaiah View Post
    At our Rodgers 588, the Line Out is only active if the Main OFF piston is pressed. That means: I can not get a signal simultaneously on the main speakers and on the Line Out connectors (which is a pity for recording reasons).
    Is this the default behaviour? And is there a way to enable the line out even if Main is on?
    Jesaiah,

    I suspect the answer is,"No," and that if you had both operating at the same time, it may cause the impedance to change beyond what the organ is designed to handle.

    Now, you need to wait for the experts on the topic to weigh in. I suspect there are work-arounds, which can help you achieve the recordings you're looking for.

    Best of luck with your project.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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    • #3
      Thank you for the fast answer ... sounds logical, yet it is a little disappointing.
      We have an interesting concert here in two weeks (with Barbara Dennerlein, cf. YouTube), and she has allowed us to record it for parish purposes ... I will set up four mics to get the ambience and the live sound, however, it would be great to have the direct signal available too ...

      Anyway: Your answer is much appreciated!
      Greetings

      Comment


      • #4
        I'll offer a tentative answer, based on my current experience with a Rodgers 558, which is the little brother to your 588 in the same model series. I assume that these two models share some common controls and options. I know that this 558 does not do this, so I assume that something was changed in the setup process to cause your 588 to act this way.

        These organs are factory equipped with about 12 different preset audio configurations to suit a variety of speaker complements that might be used with them. Each preset sets up the various audio output options to work with the speaker setup provided upon installation. Within these presets there are also details about what audio controls do what. One of those options probably establishes the manner in which the "Main Off" piston functions, and it may have accidentally been configured to silence the Aux outs when the main speakers are active. I'm pretty sure it doesn't have to be that way, but I could be wrong.

        You may have to get the dealer who installed the organ to change the audio settings to get around this. There is a "secret" series of piston presses to access all these settings that is not revealed to us common folk, but the dealer will know how to do it.

        If you'll describe the current audio setup (how many external channels, how many speakers and what type) I might be able to identify the proper audio map by consulting the installation manual.
        John
        ----------
        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

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        • #5
          Thank you for your answer, jbird! I have the service manual at hand. We use Speaker setup #6 (p.41f) and there is no notice that line out is disabled with main on in it. Yet, I might have missed something. Currently, I am trying to get my hands on a fitting preconf´d cable for the antiphonal out. I could solder it myself, yet I prefer to try this as a very last resort...

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          • #6
            Good deal. Since you have the manual, you know the "secret" (but don't tell anyone). I also thought about suggesting the antiphonal outputs for your purpose, and that could be the best option, if the line outs can't be made to work.

            I don't really understand why the line outs would not work with the Main speakers active. The 558 we are working on was originally installed with only the internal speakers, then the church added a two-channel amp and speaker system fed from the line outs, which they had playing along with the internals. We have now gotten the extra board needed to provide the full 6 to 10 channel output, and will be installing a full system on it soon. So we haven't changed the speaker setup number yet, but I have to wonder why any of the setups would intentionally kill the line outs, as they are not even connected to the audio output board, but tap into the audio at an earlier point in the signal path. I'm thinking your audio map may have been accidentally altered when the organ was installed.
            John
            ----------
            *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

            https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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            • #7
              Thanks again - as always, I really appreciate your comments and hints. I will see to it in the next days and keep you informed!

              Greetings!

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              • #8
                Update:
                As it turned out, the settings of the internal Matrix Mixer change depending whether the Main Off, Internal Off and Antiphonal Off pistons are pressed (even combinations of them ... gives 6 possibilities of mixer settings. Wow!). A service person with access to the advanced menu found the problem and restored the values so that the Line Out is now active in each combination.

                Coming to think of it, this provides a whole lot of further possibilities.

                Thanks for your input, John!

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                • #9
                  Glad you were able to resolve the issue. We finally finished our upgrading of the 558 here, and had good luck with the advanced menu. We were able to configure the output to work with the exact set of amps and speakers that the church had available. Though this is certainly not one of the "factory recommended" setups, we used the Main Out (the large 25-pin D-sub connector) to connect to a four-channel Crown amplifier. The four channels were each connected to a full-size Allen HC-10 full-range speaker. (The HC-10 is the precursor to the venerable HC-12, and has the same woofer, just a different mid and tweeter.)

                  The did not have any Rodgers subwoofers to use with the two "bass" channels of the Main Out, but we found that the Matrix Mixer allowed us to simply disperse the bass into all four of the other channels, taking full advantage of the powerful Crown amps and the awesome 15" woofers of the HC-10's. It sounds every bit as good as a system with the usual set of four small manual cabinets and two subs. Maybe better ;-)

                  We were able to set it up so that the internal speakers are still active, carrying a stereo mix of the whole organ, simultaneously with the split audio (swell/pedal in two channels, great/pedal in the other two) from the external speakers. We set the level of the internal speakers lower so they don't overpower, and the organist has the option of turning them off completely with the piston on the rail for that purpose. Can also turn off the remote speakers with the "Main Off" piston, and play the organ with only the internals (for quiet practicing, for example).

                  Quite an interesting and flexible audio system built into these little organs. And excellent sound. The 558 sounds so good I was wanting to bring it home with me!
                  John
                  ----------
                  *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                  • #10
                    I'm having difficulty even using the line-out capability on my Rodgers 558. Could somebody give me a short tutorial? I'm just trying to transfer something I have recorded on the organ to my MacBook to be used as an accompaniment, but it's proved to be beyond my limited expertise.

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                    • #11
                      Please read through the discussion above. The line outs are indeed usable for recording, but the correct preset audio configuration must be used in order to have the line outs provide a signal. As the individual above discovered, the audio routing is extremely flexible, once you understand how to navigate the advanced audio menus. Since you are so far away, I obviously can't offer any in-person help. You may have to find a qualified Rodgers service tech, if you aren't able to figure it out from the manual.
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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