Allen MDS-40s

[Jrf51ky]

Does anyone have an idea as to a reasonable price one should pay for an Allen MDS-40s organ?

[don60]

Who is the seller? The owner, who will not provide a warranty, or a dealer who will (might) provide a warranty?

Are speakers included? If so, what count and model number(s)?

Is delivery included, extra, or unavailable?

Is the organ in excellent, average, or rough condition? Have you played it to verify that all functions work correctly?

If you can answer these questions, we will be better able to provide an appraisal.

[Jrf51ky]

The instrument is a model MDS-40-s Allen built in 1990 and includes console, pedalboard, bench, and four HC-18 speaker cabinets. There is no warranty. Seller says it is in excellent condition and was in private home. I would have it inspected by an Allen technician before purchasing. This instrument is overpriced IMHO and I feel it worth 1/2 of the asking price at the most. I just wanted to hear from a disinterested source as to what a fair price range for this instrument would be assuming it were in excellent condition.

[Rick Jay]

Hi,

Not sure if this will help you or not, be our church recently purchased an Allen ADC-6000 which is about 10 years older, but looks to be approximately similar. We paid less than 20% of the current starting bid ($21,990) if you're referring to the organ that is currently listed on *b*y. Our organ came with 7 amplifiers and 16 speakers: 2 HC-12s, 10 HC-15s & 4 Behringers.

For reference, we had the organ moved from a resident's private home to our church, about 170 miles, and the cost of the move alone was over $2,500. Part of that was them hauling those 16 (heavy) speakers up into the loft area of the church. We live in the state of Taxachusetts so things might be cheaper where you live.

Not sure just how helpful this info will be to you, but might give you some guide. I think this is a buyer's market for large organs such as this right now. Check out this thread on these forums: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...d-allen-organs

I agree with you, I think it is WAY over priced. If it were me and I was reasonably local and could give it a listen, and everything worked, I'd probably offer about 20% of their starting bid. I think that would be fair. Or, if I didn't really need the organ or wanted to be aggressive, I'd let them lower the price on their own and wait it out. I can't imagine anyone paying anywhere NEAR that much.

Good Luck,

~Rick

[myorgan]

The ADC-6000 is more of an organ than the MDS-40S would be. The only difference is that the MDS has a 32' Pedal Reed on it and MIDI, whereas the ADC organ will not.

Michael

[samibe]

Reasonable for the MDS-40S would probably be between $5500 and $8000 depending on what kind of shape it is in (including speakers). External midi modules (MDS Expander) would increase the price.

[John Vanderlee]

What caught my eye is the HC18 speakers. Those are JBL 15" drivers and are highly desirable in the audio market, Even used they can go for $300 or more. I recently tried to bid on one driver with a blown surround(I can fix those) but dropped out when it went over $200. It sold for $225 I think. Just remember those had foam surrounds - the older ones deteriorate - so you might want to check out their condition. I also found an HC18 cabinet where the JBL was replaced with a much cheaper Eminence driver, at great loss of sound quality.
All things to consider for you..

[jbird604]

Can't blame them for trying, but yes, they won't sell it for anywhere near that. There aren't enough pictures to clarify, but the one speaker cabinet that is pictured is not an HC-18 but a garden variety HC-15, and it may not even have the original Peerless midrange. Looks like a Pyle mid has been substituted. So no real extra value in the speakers, if that one is typical of the four.

The 40S is a nice model, to be sure. The sub and super couplers make it special, as those are not found on more typical Allen digitals. These couplers demand more resources of the digital tone generator, so Allen made this possible by devoting one complete MDS-W4 tone generator cage to just the swell division. This is necessary because the swell stops, which are coupleable at 4' and 16' must actually be separately generated when couplers are in use. Otherwise, the polyphony would drop to as low as 3 notes! That being totally unacceptable, the extra generator power eliminates this drawback and the polyphony remains at 12 keys down at once on the swell, regardless of how many stops or couplers are in use. This is in addition to the 12 notes that can also be in use on the great/choir/pedal tone generation system, which is in an entirely separate cage.

So it's quite an organ, more to it than the modest stop list suggests. Allen mixed all these generator outputs down to just four final audio channels, but it is possible, with some technical knowledge, to have it play through up to 8 channels, or even to add a separate subwoofer and possibly even a Festival Trumpet channel. But again, considerable technical knowledge is required to make these modifications. And not something I can tell you how to do from the comfort of my own home.

All that said, the MDS-40S is a 29-year-old design, and an organ of that age can well have some aging issues. Apparently the HC-15 midrange cones rotted out and got replaced (though with a possibly inferior driver, but then I've done that myself in the past). There was also a known issue with the cage power supplies in these organs, and it may require new ones if they haven't been replaced with the latest "switching mode" supply.

And any organ of that age will definitely need all the "routine maintenance" that we have talked about at length on this forum -- exercising of the pots, lubing and cleaning of all the interconnects, checking of all cables and connectors. The ADC amplifiers could give some trouble at this age. Felts and other wearable parts could be in need of replacement.

Chances are you could just set it up and play it, but these are things to think about. At the very least, it deserves a thorough voicing after being placed in its new home.

A dealer or a professional rebuilding shop like ours would probably price an organ like this at $15K - $18K, but that would be for an organ that has been 100% refurbished, with all renewable parts serviced, full maintenance done, and would include a typical delivery and installation, voicing, and possibly a one-year warranty if the buyer were in our service area.

A seller trying to move this organ with no warranty, no delivery, no service or after-sale assistance, and no assurance that it is in like-new condition shouldn't be asking more than maybe $3000 to $4000, in my opinion. It's hard for a church to understand this, as they probably paid $40K - $50K for it in 1990. But no used electronic device is going to hold anywhere near its original value for 30 years, and we all know that.

Besides, for any electronic organ, the price the retail buyer pays is about half for the "services" received with the purchase -- the delivery, installation, the voicing, the 10 year warranty, all the consulting and designing and planning and education of the committee the dealer provided for "free" before the sale, commission to the salesperson, and some profit for the dealer. No way can an owner turn around and re-sell an organ for what he paid just yesterday. Half of the money is already gone! After 30 years, it can't be worth more than 10% of what it cost, and that is a stretch.