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Repairs to Allen 1973 organ MOS1?

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    Repairs to Allen 1973 organ MOS1?

    Hello, newbie here. I'm an electronics technician by trade and our church organ is about a 1973 Allen 2 keyboard organ. It still works quite well but needs attention in at least a couple of areas. First, I admit, I really know nothing about music or pianos and organs. I worked at a music store once and a friend there was good at that kind of work but he has passed away now.

    I tend to take on a variety of jobs and thought I would try to help out here. We are a small rural church and no one else knows any more than me except the organist. There are no organ service companies anywhere near us so would be very expensive to get an outsider to come in. All I know is from Googling and that isn't much. The main problem is that (on the lower keyboard which is used most often) several keys near the middle have a "clicking" sound. I'm quite sure new "pads" are needed in this area. Can't recall if the sound occurs when key is played and hits bottom or if the sound comes when key is released and hits at the top somewhere. I need help with your opinion and how to access this area of the organ/keyboard. Does someone have a good sketch or photo of the key action so I can see where these "pads" need to be replaced. I think I read that a nut needs to be removed so as to replace the pad on each key. Before I forget, where is the best place to get the new pads or parts needed?

    Also for most of the time I can remember, there is an annoying "thump" heard below (organ is in the balcony) the balcony when foot pedals ? are played. It seems again either as pedal is released, whatever is hit makes a rather loud noise that folks below hear. The organ stands on flat foam backed carpeting. I've wondered if inserting some other cushiony material inserted under the organ cabinet perimeter would minimize this noise.

    Thanks for any suggestions and pardon the ignorance of my familiarity with organs, etc. Oh, yes, organist did say at random times it seems some strange noise or tone or static momentarily comes out that she doesn't know the origin of..... of course, until it is more consistent it will be tough to locate what is going on here.

    Best regards all,
    Scout
    Last edited by myorgan; 10-08-2019, 04:03 PM. Reason: Fix line breaks.

    #2
    Scout,

    First of all, welcome to the Forum. It sounds like you have a true interest in helping out in a difficult situation–that's where many of us started out.

    Also, I took a couple of minutes to fix the line breaks in your post. You do not need to press "Return" or "Enter" at the end of each line. The computer will sort it out for you.

    Do you have the ability to take a photo of the organ and post it here? If so, that will tell us which console you have, and we can give you specific directions for accessing the underside of the keyboards. Also, if you have the model number of the organ (i.e. 603D, 505B, or 305C) we can help you more quickly.

    In later Allen Organs, the Model/Serial number plate (along with every patent they used) is connected to the inside of the console on the hinge rail. To access that rail in a style B or style D console, you would simply lift the lid, and facing the organ, the plate will be located on the left-hand side, on the back of the inside of the console, where the cover is hinged.

    To access that information on a style C (Contemporary) console, the instructions are quite different. Screws have to be removed to access the innards. Basically, the B console looks like it has the front, top corners cut off, the D console looks rather boxy, but larger, and the C (Contemporary) console has been described as looking like a spaceship, with a distinct top section, set apart from a distinct bottom section.

    Let us know what you have, and we'll help where we can. Again, welcome to the Forum!

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

    Comment


      #3
      Scout, our Allen experts will no doubt work on this with you. I own a MOS-1 and play one at church- they're built like battleships, and lots of parts floating around. I have a tech manual; if you need anything specific down the road I can make a PDF and email to you.
      R, Bill Miller Phila PA

      Comment


        #4
        Wow, you guys are so helpful. It is really appreciated. I tried to find the model number but too much stuff on top and I don't want to disturb. I will try to attach some photos I took. By the way, it looks like it would be that style "C". Thanks for your help. Scout

        Comment


          #5
          It's a Model 100 if there's a rotating speaker inside (can't tell from photo); if not, it's a model 120. I own one of the first S100's... nice organ and holding up well!

          Comment


            #6
            Hi...no it doesn't have a rotating speaker. Don't know if that was called a Leslie in this brand but do recall from many, many years ago seeing that in an organ. So could one of you kind fellows help with advise on the key pad problem. Sure would need a step by step instruction and any visual would be great. Also would help to give n explain the nomenclature as you go....so what is the full model thanks? Scout

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              Okey Dokey,

              This thread: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...623#post153623 should help you gain access to the undersides of the keyboards. From the hinge across the top (lift-lid vs. roll top) makes me believe you do have an Allen MOS-1 Style 120-C.

              Let us know what you find once you get inside, and we can help you further. Again, photos are incredibly helpful!

              Michael

              P.S. Allen's rotary speakers were never called Leslie speakers. Allen's speakers revolved vertically vs. horizontally like the Leslie. The sound distribution was a bit different. IMHO, you're not missing much.

            #7
            Not sure what model you have but it may not be a model 120 from the view of the back. My 120 has a gyro but no card reader. However, I'm not sure how model numbers change as you add features.
            Alan

            Allen MOS-1, Model 100, Serial AC-440
            purchased in 1972

            Comment


            • beel m
              beel m commented
              Editing a comment
              Model numbers change as you add features:
              100 (later, 120) Standard
              101 (later, 121) Add card reader and alterable voices
              102 (later, 122) Add capture action (note- no toe studs)
              103 (later, 123) Add both card reader and capture action
              I *may* have 101 and 102 backwards... my manual's at church.

            • beel m
              beel m commented
              Editing a comment
              Strange that I have both gyro off and random motion available in the general tab group..

              The original (100 etc) had a pseudo-RM which came from the keyboard array or MOS board- I don't recall which. My S100 has it and it's not very effective. When the 120 came out they dropped the gyro and added a RM board which is much more effective. If you're curious how it works, check the archives- I think I remember jbird604 saying it toggled the tremulant on and off in brief pulses.

            • Al Offt
              Al Offt commented
              Editing a comment
              beel m - Very interesting, thanks for the information.

            #8
            My unit does not have the rotating speaker assembly. Are you sure that is the right link to thread about getting at the keys.... only thing I find is a photo available .at the link near top post.
            Only problem with once I start, I would have to have parts on hand and know just what to do as the organ is used every Sunday..

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              On my computer, if I moved the mouse while the link loaded, it would not take me to the post. The post I referenced is jbird604's post of 7/3/2009 @7:00AM, and is post #14. Hope that helps.

              Michael

            #9
            If you have a mechanical 'clicking' sound that occurs when the key is fully depressed it sounds like the down limit felt is worn out or has come unstuck (or both).

            To replace the down limit felt you will need to remove every key in order to replace it. If you really want to do this then raise the top cover of the organ. The screws are on the outside underneath side of the keybed. There should be some small metal brackets that the screws go through. When the screws are removed the top will pivot up.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	1 Top.JPG Views:	0 Size:	85.8 KB ID:	667632

            Then remove the screws on the outside edges of the top of the stop rail that hold the stop rail down to the upper manual. The stop rail can then be pivoted up on the two metal arms that hold it.

            There are two metal straps on the outside of the upper manual that hold the upper manual to the lower manual. Remove the upper screws.

            The upper manual can then be pivoted up

            Click image for larger version  Name:	3 Keybed.JPG Views:	0 Size:	121.9 KB ID:	667633

            Then remove the screws on the underneath side of the keybed that hold the bottom manual down to allow it to be pivoted up. You may need type of wooden block to hold the bottom manual up

            You will then be able to look under the front edge of the keys and inspect the down limit felt to see what condition it is in, and whether the key stick is striking the front rail to cause the clicking noise. Then make a decision about whether you really want to proceed.

            If you go ahead, I suggest you number each key stick from 1 to 61 so that you know where they go back to

            Then remove the 3/8" plastic levelling nut and the round felt washer; and the rear tension spring from every key. Don't lose them. The keys can then be removed.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	4 Level Nuts.jpg Views:	0 Size:	132.8 KB ID:	667634

            Then you can replace the down limit felt

            Click image for larger version  Name:	5 Down Limit Felt.jpg Views:	0 Size:	111.0 KB ID:	667635

            You will need to contact an industrial felt supplier to get an equivalent density and size felt strip (or you can find an friendly Allen Dealer and order the part through them - see Row C below). Note that the same felt strip is used under the rear of each key to enable it to pivot.

            Click image for larger version  Name:	Allen Key Action.PNG Views:	0 Size:	471.9 KB ID:	667636


            Then reassemble it all.

            You will need to level each key by adjusting the position of each plastic levelling nut

            The pedalboard is probably thumping when a pedal is released because the upstop felt in the pedalboard is worn. It would also need to be replaced.

            Last edited by Momboc; 10-09-2019, 11:13 PM.
            My MIDI controlled, module and software driven virtual 'organ' thread is here: http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...l=1#post427320

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              I wish I could "like" this post twice! Now, that's how to write a tutorial! Thank you, Momboc, for taking so much time to assemble this post. It can be referenced for many years to come.

              Michael

              P.S. Sometimes you can find roll felt wool/wool felt at a fabric store (i.e. *oanne's or *obby *obby).
              Last edited by myorgan; 10-10-2019, 03:33 PM. Reason: Add P.S.

            #10
            I found the up-key felt at Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . A discussion about key clicks can be found at https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-clicking-keys
            Alan

            Allen MOS-1, Model 100, Serial AC-440
            purchased in 1972

            Comment


              #11
              Just a quick note to thank you guys for such helpful photos and information. Will take a bit of time to digest all of this. It will take some time to decide whether to proceed and get the decision of the church. So I may or may not post for awhile.

              Comment


                #12
                Note to Momboc…. you stated that I would have to remove every one of the keys. If only several in the center portion of the manual are having this problem, couldn't I just replace the felts or pads on just these? Or are you saying if some are bad they all should be replaced? Or did you mean that the keys have to be taken out starting from one end to get to the center ones and then to go all the way through that manual and replace all the pads?
                Scout

                Comment


                • myorgan
                  myorgan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  If you are replacing the down-felt, it should be installed in one entire length. I would imagine you could splice in a new piece in the middle, if that's what is required, but it may cause a different feel for the organist where the transition takes place.

                  In reality, you can remove any of the keys in any order, but it is advisable to start in one location and go from there. An alternate way to keep track of the order of the keys is to draw a diagonal line with a #2 pencil across the wooden sticks. When you re-install the keys, the diagonal line should line up.

                  Hope that helps.

                  Michael

                • samibe
                  samibe commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Figure out for sure whether the click occurs when the key is pressed or released. If it clicks when the key is pressed, then the 'down limiter' felt will need to be replaced (and all of the keys will likely have to be removed to do that). If the keys click when they are released (like mine were doing), then you only need to replace the 'felt washer (return limiter)' on the keys that click with the stuff from post #10. Although it is not particularly difficult to change them all. If neither of those work, you may have loose keytops (but that is less likely).

                #13
                Back again but still far from ready to tackle this... couple more questions. If I need to replace the "down limiter" felt, then that is a long strip or roll of material I suppose. Is it adhesive backed or how do you secure it. Also when referring to the post #9 from montblanc, which "letter" of the drawing is the return felt, how many would be needed to replace all on one manual. Also where can the materials be found... thanks much

                Comment


                  #14
                  Before you start tearing things apart check that the clicking is not the key hitting the piston rail between the keyboards when released. If it is then tightening the nylon leveling nuts under each key a couple turns will solve that problem.
                  td

                  Comment


                    #15
                    OK... guess I would have to tear it apart to some extent to look for that being the issue. I'm not real sure what is meant by the term "piston rail" . If I have to lift up the upper manual to access the lower one and look for that problem, wouldn't that also be separating the parts that might be hitting each other? Sorry, I've never had one open and can only try to imagine
                    the construction and layout of assemblies. So if the nylon leveling nuts are tightened ( clockwise) that would move that part of the key down and away from what it is hitting? But also won't that consequently make the front part of the key higher and not level with the others?
                    From reading back on other posts, I'm still not clear if I need to replace two long rows of felt... down limiter near front and another near back? Also those round ones on Amazon should all be replaced too? Are there two of those round ones with each key? Again, where might I get the materials and how do I know what the "specs" should be if that is critical... I see that it was suggested to try the two hobby fabric stores but still need to know about the density, thickness, width, etc. Again, does one need a certain type of glue to secure the new roll of felt ? Thanks again for everyone's support.

                    Comment

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