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    Organ Freight/Shipping

    Hello all,
    First post here and not sure this is the proper category to post the question, but that aside...
    We purchased an old Allen 3 manual from a church for a practice unit and now need to arrange for shipping it. Does anyone have recommendations for reliable, safe, and hopefully not over-the-top pricing shipping/freight lines to check with? Unit would be moved from Colorado to Alabama. Will include organ, bench, some speakers, a couple of ancillary amp racks, etc, the usual items. Do the movers typically package/pallet everything up also? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Cameron

    #2
    It is gonna be risky a organ that big going that far. Allen’s are pretty though form the ones I have played but when you do figure out how to get it there Make sure everything works . That way you don’t get in a jam if you have any organ people around if something doesn’t seem right ask one . I know I didn’t answer your question sorry about that .

    Comment


      #3
      Cameron,

      Check this thread for recent information on shipping a classical organ (such as an Allen 3-manual). Hope this helps.

      https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...ans-in-the-usa

      Michael
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

      Comment


        #4
        Welcome to the forum southernscots ! Organ shipping has been covered here several times not too long ago, so if you do a search you will find some threads about various people / methods that others have used with good service. I just went though trying to arrange shipping for an organ, and had contact with a shipper that I think would do a good job for you. However I cant say that he would for sure, because the buyer ultimately did not buy the organ. So of course, nothing got shipped. But from our phone conversations I am confident that he knows enough about organs, And trucking, to do a fine job.

        I don't want to publish his contact info in an open forum without his permission, so PM me and I will get it to you.

        Of course, organ shipping across the country is not a cheap date. But a big three manual Allen is likely worth the cost to get it to you.

        So tell us about the organ - model, speakers included, photos, etc.

        If you could put a location in your profile, we would like that. There are quite a few Allen aficionados and experienced techs on this forum, so advice on any issues it might have can be asked about here.
        Regards, Larry

        At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

        Comment


          #5
          I hope you have been provided with contacts and you have already managed to make the transportation. I remember at one time I had to spend a day and a half to call all the companies, find the right one and coordinate the transportation. Of course it was quite expensive.

          Comment


          • Jay999
            Jay999 commented
            Editing a comment
            A lot of those bigger Allens are inter-connected with many plugs. If you can get the seller to put a label on each plug and each receptacle, you'll save a lot of time and confusion, trying to figure all of that out.

          • myorgan
            myorgan commented
            Editing a comment
            Liam,

            Was the transportation to Indonesia? I would imagine that WOULD be quote expensive!

            Jay, thank you for bringing that up. Labeled connections are priceless.

            Michael

          #6
          Hello again everyone, thanks so much for the shipping suggestions. The organ is an Allen 3-manual 632-D, being stored at a church in Boulder; it was on ebay recently. We spoke several times with the church about it and were pleased with the find for our needs compared to what we've seen others/dealers asking for older 3-manuals and the apparent rare availability, as we're not looking to spend thousands of dollars for a home practice instrument but wanted a 3-manual at the minimum. The church says it powers on and operates, folks tinker around on it occasionally, but they haven't had an organist or used it in several years; so short of having someone from a local shop go over to check it out in person, there's not a way to tell just how much work it needs. I'm sure there will be several items to fix and we should be able to get those things taken care of eventually, may take a while. They are also including several speakers and a couple of amp racks. Cosmetically, it is in excellent condition to be +/- 40 years old. It has many stops (listed below) and a card reader. By the way, what are the blank tabs for? Can they be used? I would think this unit would probably be a great candidate to midi-fy/hauptwerk or whatever later on. We plan to contact Allen next week to get console dimensions and weight specs. Regardless of its ills, we're excited about having our first full-size classical AGO pedalboard organ in the home!

          Based on your recommendations in the thread above, and in an effort to assist others who might be looking for similar info, here's what we've found out so far regarding shipping: Spoke with Steve Hicks of A-1 Piano Movers, he declined as being too far out of their area (or it would be upwards of $2500 if we REALLY needed him to do it when they could work it into their schedule but would be several months out). He was very personable and friendly, and suggested we give Ariel at Charles Walter Piano Transport a call; will try them next week (anyone used before?). Mr. Hicks also said that Ron Brewer was no longer in the transport business. We spoke with Joe Long, who said he is not transporting instruments at this time due to family matters; he didn't offer further information and we didn't press further regarding future availability. We also contacted Russell Lauterback in Florida, who provided an off-the-cuff estimate of 3-4 weeks @ $1200-1500, pending final details - would any of you go with that or is it too much? Private replies are fine to share your opinion if you don't wish to discuss openly. The month timeframe is not an issue for us. We are planning to look into U-ship; Mr. Hicks said we may get the best rates there but to be sure and pick someone with good reviews who is insured, etc, of course. We haven't spoken with Keyboard Carriage yet, will contact them next week. We are aware of the flying/driving out and hauling it back ourselves options, but those are not preferred alternatives at this time due to work constraints.

          Pedals: Contrabass 32, Contrabourdon 32, Diapason 16, Violone 16, Bourdon 16, Lieblich Gedeckt 16, Octave 8, Gedeckt Flote 8, Quint 5-1/3, Choral Bass 4, Flute Ouverte 4, Choral Basset 2, Flute A Bec 2, Mixture III, Contra Posaune 32, Bombarde 16, Trompete 8, Schalmei Bass 4, (Blank); Couplers: Great to Pedal, Swell to Pedal, Choir to Pedal.

          Great: Quintaten 16, Erzahler 16, Prinzipal 8, Dulciana 8, Hohlflote 8, Flute Dolce 8, Octav 4, Spitzflote 4, Quinte 2-2/3, Doublette 2, Waldflote 2, MIxtur IV, Cor Anglais 8, Alterables 7, 8, 9, 10. Also includes Delay, Percussion, (Blank), Chorus Tuning, Tremulant. Couplers: Swell to Great, Choir to Great.

          Swell: Flute Conique (...I believe... tape is partially covering tab, presumably 16 or 8 pitch), Salizional 8, Gemshorn 8, Gedeckt 8, Spitz Prinzipal 4, Koppel Flote 4, Nasat 2-2/3, Fifteenth 2, Terz 1-3/5, Sifflote 1, Mixtur V, (Blank), Contra Fagotto 16, Hautbois 8, Trompette 8, Clarion 4, Alterables 1, 2, 3, 4. Also includes Delay, Percussion, Celeste Tuning, Tremulant, Doubling Off, Sub Octaver A, Sub Octaver B.

          Choir: Viole 8, Montre 8, Flute 8, Prestant 4, Flute Harmonic 4, Nazard 2-2/3, Blockflote 2, Tierce 1-3/5, Flageolet 1, Kleine Mixtur III, Bassoon 16, Trumpet 8, Oboe 8, Schalmei 8, Alterables 5, 6. Also includes Chimes, Chiff, Delay, Percussion, Tremulant. Coupler: Swell to Choir.

          General: Mixtur Breaks, SW-GT Chiff MF, SW-GT Chiff F, Random Motion Off, Speech Artic. Off, (Blank), Choir Antiphonal On, Choir Main Organ Off, Antiphonal Organ, Main Organ Off.

          We downloaded the Allen "System 600 Series" user manual/guide from manualslib.com, and it includes descriptions of most of the exact stop names as I listed above, not quite all. It doesn't refer anywhere specifically to the 632, although it does speak to some tab voice replacements on the "-3 Specification", perhaps that means a model number with a "3" in it...? The guide also mentions Sub Octavers L(eft) and R(ight) (whereas above is A and B), with the L&R referring to the 'doubling' effect of pedal/swell and great/choir, or whatever the combo is - guess A&B on this unit refers to the same thing...? Anyway, I'm sure we'll be asking for your thoughts and help on matters in the days to come after we get it in and start going over with a fine-toothed comb! Happy weekend to all! Cam
          Last edited by southernscots; 10-19-2019, 09:56 PM.

          Comment


          • myorgan
            myorgan commented
            Editing a comment
            The dimensions and weight for an Allen D Console is approximately 600lbs. without the amplifiers in it (amp racks). The 2 amps would add approximately 50lbs. The pedals are approximately 90lbs., and the bench is 45lbs. The console is approximately 66" wide, and approximately 35.5" deep without the pedals, and approximately 51.5" tall.

            There is another 632-D for sale on *Bay right now (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-digit...s/264502331408). That organ doesn't have a 32' Pedal Reed, which makes me wonder if your organ does have one or not. For some reason, the photos your organ shows are different than the on on *Bay. Are you sure your organ is a 632-D? To me, your photos look more like an MOS-2 805-D or higher–perhaps an 1105-D?

            Do you have a photo of the serial number plate? That would remove all doubt.

            Welcome to the Forum.

            Michael

          • Larrytow
            Larrytow commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi Cam, That D console is one of the nicest ones Allen ever made in my opinion. The serial # plate can be seen by just lifting up the lid ( it's on hinges on the back rail ), so perhaps someone at the church could do that for you as you wait to get it moved / shipped. The ID plate will be on the left hand side of the upper rail, inside the console.

            The guy I mentioned in my above post is Russell L. I'm retired from being in a part of the trucking biz, and he and I talked quite a bit one night. I am confident he knows both the trucking biz, AND about moving organs. That sort of trucking job is by it's nature specialized, and that always translates to more expense than just shipping a crate somewhere.

          #7
          Thanks Michael, that's great info - where do you find it? Very little comes up doing internet searches. They posted a serial plate early on in the listing which said 632-D as I did see it, but later removed it and a couple other pics to post new ones for some reason (instead of just adding to those already posted, may have reached a file size limit or something). The one currently for auction does not have as many tab stops as this one. The lady at the church did send some close-up pics of tabs, see attached. I also asked her about the keys for the rolltop and capture memory, and she was able to contact their previous pastor who told her where they were kept, so we will fortunately get those also. I will ask her to send pic of serial plate. Can anyone provide any insight regarding the blank tabs (one tab each in the pedal, swell, great, and gen - not choir)? I'm very curious as to why there would be blanks.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by southernscots; 10-19-2019, 09:59 PM.

          Comment


            #8
            And toe pistons...
            Attached Files

            Comment


              #9
              For ease of comparison, this is the one currently listed for parts at auction - you can see the differences in the console tabs. Finger/toe piston locations & quantities appear nearly identical - ours has an additional finger piston under the lower manual, and an additional toe piston on top right side (4 vs. 3). Left and right side controls also appear to differ. Who knows, the lady at church could have seen this one and assumed theirs was the same and copied that pic then removed it, but still called it 632-D in her description (assuming no mal-intent there, but unknowledgable regarding the organ specs/details). Or perhaps the church's (ours) was a custom build back in the day if it indeed IS a 632-D but the pics below may represent the usual/typical/standard version of it or something... Ours also appears to be a lighter cabinet color than this one. At any rate, the church just wants to get it out of the way, she said it's sitting over to the side in the sanctuary taking up space and there are a bunch of speakers piled upstairs in states of unknown functionality, at least two HC-12s, and asked if we would like them all (umm...yes!). Oh well, guess we'll find out which model for sure sooner or later, many of them are so very similar in appearance to each other just looking at the pictures; yes the serial plate will tell us for sure! In the meantime, we could start up a contest: Name that Allen model!
              Attached Files
              Last edited by southernscots; 10-19-2019, 10:07 PM.

              Comment


                #10
                Here's what makes me believe your organ is an MOS-2:
                • There is a Sforzando piston and matching toe stud. Those only existed on larger MOS-1 and MOS-2 instruments.
                • Your organ has a 32' Pedal Reed, which was not on any of the stock MOS-1 instruments, however, it WAS on the larger MOS-2 3-manual instruments.
                • The Pedal also has two 2' stops, which was unheard of on an MOS-1 organ.
                • The Great Cor Anglais 8' was the standard lone Reed stop on MOS-2 organs' Great manual.
                • The MOS-1 organs did not have the Delay tab (that I know of), but the MOS-2 organs did. When using the Delay, however, I found my 505-B did not react well when utilized on full organ. It didn't have enough processing power.
                • The MOS-2 organs used two separate computers to create the Celeste Tuning. I must say, that's the nicest part of the MOS-2 organ I have.
                • On MOS-1 organs, the General tabs were included in each division, but on the MOS-2, they were given their own General division.
                I do wonder if the organ you will be getting is a custom organ. Some of them had reversible toe studs and pistons for the 32' stops, but this organ has none.

                Regarding the blanks, it depends on which generation organ you have to determine how they could be used. They were generally options which could be added to the organ at purchase time. On MOS-1 organs, if you didn't get the option at purchase, it was quite expensive to add. However, on the MOS-2 organ, some features were present on the organ, but just not "turned on."

                My best guess is that your organ is an MOS-2 1105, 1205, or 1405. We'll see what comes up.

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

                Comment


                • southernscots
                  southernscots commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Michael, the user guide for these models (805/1105/1403/1405) states that reversible pistons are provided for actuating and cycling the couplers on/off, with duplicating toe pistons; nothing is said about reversible pistons/studs for 32' stops. How could one find out if the organ has any features available but not turned on, as you mentioned above?

                #11
                Winner! Winner! Chicken dinner! LOL Well done Michael! It IS an 1105-D!! I emailed her with where to look for the plate and she went and made pic and sent right back. Now we need the specs for it instead - this is exciting!
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #12
                  Congratulations, me! (& you too). This means the organ is a later technology (MOS-2 instead of MOS-1) organ, and much larger than you would have had with the 632. You will LOVE that organ's celestes! What a find!

                  Michael

                  P.S. Where di you say I could pick it up?
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

                  Comment


                    #13
                    Yay! And thanks! She just sent some speaker pics - there are twelve (12) HC12's, 4 remote presence projector speakers (for antiphonals?), and 2 more large square somethings - one clearly has 4 cones visible through the fabric, and the other looks like a single large cone behind fabric (faint dark circular outline).

                    Comment


                      #14
                      And here's the racks..

                      Comment


                        #15
                        Looks good Cam. I have no idea what model # the two cabinets are that have the tan grill cloth. One of the more experienced Allen guys here should know though. The one that has the single driver may be a sub woofer of some sort.

                        The HC12 speakers may have rotted foam in both mid-ranges and the 15" drivers. They are not too hard to re-foam though, if you are somewhat mechanical. Kits are available, and many here have done the job with great success. You really want to keep the original drivers ( even if they need fixing ) rather than replacing them.

                        The amp rack looks like the standard Allen factory built one, and you will find that they put the same amount of care into building those as they do the consoles. On the floor on the right side of the rack it looks like there is a large pile of kinda tangled speaker cable. You certainly want to have that ! One can never have too much cable around when doing a re-installation in a new space.
                        Regards, Larry

                        At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

                        Comment

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