Digital Music and Page Turn

[southernscots]

Thought it best to start a new topic thread since this was off-topic and buried in the post on the disposition of the Johnson Ferry organ. Regarding my comment yesterday to the post below:

If this is off topic, please move to the appropriate area. In the video of the Walker Organ dedication, Samuel Metzger was using an electronic device to store and page turn his music. Does anyone recognize this set up -- device and software. I contacted Samuel, but did not get a reply. Thanks, Allen

I spoke with my friend that gave the flute recital. The accompanist, as well as my flautist friend, uses the Ipad app "Forscore" and a blue-tooth foot pedal called "PageFlip Firefly". They say both the app and pedal are excellent to use. I just looked it up on Amazon and included the pic they display here. Again, not sure how amendable the pedal flipper would be for organists, whose feet are already pretty busy in a crowded space, but it could perhaps be mounted under the console near the toe studs where one could still tap it ...but might have to just swipe the screen with a finger instead. At any rate, these items are what they use.

[myorgan]

Southernscots,

Thank you for the information. The page turn software and hardware is excellent product information to have.

Michael

[voet]

I am looking into getting a setup like this. There is a 3 inch ledge above the pedal board where switches could be mounted, but most of the switches I have found are bigger than that. A toe stud would be ideal. I would also like a system where I could load marked up music. I suppose any software that allowed you to scan a score would work. Is there anyone on this forum who can share successful solutions that they have found?

[myorgan]

I am fortunate enough to work where they have a copier that scans to an e-mail address, and I can choose the format (i.e. PDF, JPG, etc.). Now I just need to save up the money to purchase the *Pad(s) to use for the marked up music.

Michael

P.S. I'm still not sure I'm ready to take the plunge. There's just something about being able to make your notations on the fly.

[Piperdane]

P.S. I'm still not sure I'm ready to take the plunge. There's just something about being able to make your notations on the fly.

The ForScore app allows notations to be done with an Apple pencil. I use an iPad Pro 12.9, and am able to insert piston numbers, stop registration changes, and a plethora of other markings.

[timnc]

You got me curious about ForScore and I looked it up and found it also supports facial gestures to turn pages for supported iPads (I think it's part of the pro $10/year subscription). Cool! Not sure it it's worth the annual cost, but cool nonetheless.

[timnc]

I've thought about this too. Busy feet would certainly come into play depending on the piece and where the page turns are. Reaching up even on a 3-manual to swipe would be my preference. I haven't tried it yet as I am still used to hard copy. Also, with repeats that need to turn back sometimes several pages, I wonder how the foot pedal would do that—are there 2 pedals? The advantage to having a digital setup would be the ability to carry virtually your entire library. Definitely worth considering. Also need a descent size screen for those without young eyes. I have a 5x8.5 songbook with up to 5 systems on a page that gets hard to read (this would be equivalent to a about a 10” screen diagonally, so I agree with Piperdane using a 12.9” iPad) Or maybe I just need new glasses.

[southernscots]

My friend said he uses a 12-inch iPad. I would prefer larger for reading from the organ rack.

[voet]

I contacted François Ratte to see what some of his customers are using. He sent me this link:

https://www.musicreader.net/

Music Reader seems to have all of the bases covered. Apparently there are tablets with 18 or 20 inch screens. I am still doing research. I also have some emails out to vendors to see if their products will support this applicaton.

Also, Timnc, yes there are 2 pedals. They can be programed to function in different ways depending on your preferences.

[Silken Path]

And Viewsonic makes a crazy 24" "tablet" that is really a 1080p monitor. It fits on the music rack on my W5000 and my reed organ, but it's too heavy for my Allen without some reinforcement.

[voet]

EUREKA! I think I have found the product I have been looking for. It is the Onyx Boox 2 Pro. I just found out about it and it really looks like an excellent system. I like that it uses E-Ink instead of an LCD screen. You can also use a pen to make notations in your score. It can download directly from IMSLP or you can scan your existing music.

There is a great review by Dr. Grigor Khachatryan, Assistant Professor of Piano at Concordia College, Moorhead, Minnesota. This is the link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2jBA3lVXWI

[timnc]

Page turning with either feet or hands are really not appealing to me. Hands work well on a piano where we can cover it up with the sustain and I wouldn't even begin to know where to put a foot controller on the organ. I already had an iPad Pro 12.9 with the pencil so I purchased ForScore for $15 and added the pro subscription for $10/year. Now I can turn pages just by moving my mouth back and forth. Works great for me.

[jjcricket1958]

I'm interested in getting an iPad Pro 12.5 also. I recently read something about being able to turn pages with facial features - and if I read your comment correctly, the pro version of ForScore allows you to do this? Though you already explained this, can you tell me more, if is it really that easy?

[timnc]

jjcricket1958 Yes, it is easy and has been reliable for me. The facial gestures feature of forScore pro uses the iPad pro's 3D facial recognition to detect movement. You can choose either slight head turn or mouth movement left/right. I like using the mouth movement. You can adjust the sensitivity for your taste. Surprisingly it can detect very slight movements. You enable it and adjust sensitivity by going into the settings and then go into “pro” but you can also quickly turn it on or off by tapping the smiley face in the tool bar.

[tbeck]

jjcricket1958 Yes, it is easy and has been reliable for me. The facial gestures feature of forScore pro uses the iPad pro's 3D facial recognition to detect movement. You can choose either slight head turn or mouth movement left/right. I like using the mouth movement. You can adjust the sensitivity for your taste. Surprisingly it can detect very slight movements. You enable it and adjust sensitivity by going into the settings and then go into “pro” but you can also quickly turn it on or off by tapping the smiley face in the tool bar.

I can imagine that having the sensitivity too low could lead to disaster.

I would be very interested in having a gesture-sensitive MIDI controller to be able to send commands to my VPO. It would be great to be able to set up a combination sequence and manipulate it using gestures.

[timnc]

Here's another idea: use thumb pistons to change the pages. I even found a product called "FLIP page turner" that provides some kind of thumb piston control for page turning over bluetooth. Since organists are already used to hitting thumb pistons while playing, this type of idea may appeal to some organists. This "FLIP" product looks like it's just the brains and you have to provide the actual pistons so I don't know if you have to just sacrifice a couple pistons you already have and rewire it (not appealing to me) or can you stick a little remote panel under one of the manuals or even under each manual to add pistons along side existing ones. I don't know how well this product works or if it is usable in any way, I'm just commenting on the idea of it. It would certainly take more research to see if it may be a benefit.

[sackbut]

Great information. Can anyone advise regarding Amazon's "renewed" Apple iPads?
Thanks!

[myorgan]

Great information. Can anyone advise regarding Amazon's "renewed" Apple iPads?

Sackbut,

Generally, when an Apple device is listed as "refurbished," it means someone purchased it, returned it for whatever defect, and Apple has checked the entire device to be sure it is ready to relist as "refurbished." The price is generally $100 or so less than the original, but it is generally a better quality device because it has been quality checked before release.

OTOH, I'm not sure what Amazon's "renewed" Apple devices are representing. If they are "renewed" by Apple authorized personnel, then the devices will be close to what you see described above. OTOH, if it is a 3^rd party entity, not all are created equal. In other words, look at their feedback and check into their history. I would think with a "renewed" device, they may be a generation or two older, so that means they will no longer be viable as an Internet-enabled device sooner than current generation devices. You can check this link to find out what devices are still current: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPad

Hope that helps.

Michael

[sackbut]

Excellent help.
Thank you, Michael.