An odd request, but maybe someone on this list can help me here. What are the LDS organs models (recent past and present) that are supplied by Allen, Rodgers and Johannus? I believe these are the only "approved" companies that the LDS church deals with.</p>
Justa couple of years ago,one LDS chapel here got a Rodgers 790Ce. I haven't seen any other new ones lately.The last Alleninstalled locally inan LDS chapel was an MDS-35, but that was quite a few years ago. An LDS chapelin north Arkansasgot an AP-16in 2004, but I haven't seen it.</P>
These are all relatively "large" LDS chapels, and upscale organs. Back in the 80's we put a lot of MADC-420 organs into the small LDS chapels. The larger ones back then were getting ADC-2000 series organs, and later on ADC3100 and 3160's.</P>
Some of the really small oneshave some kind of one-manual piano/organ/frankenstein thing from Rodgers.</P>
John</P>
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John
---------- *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!
I suppose the LDS doesn't have as much a presence in the UK as here. It's Latter Day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons, and they are a fast-growing group in the US, building a lot of new chapels (as they call their local facilities).</P>
Their national headquarters in Salt Lake City, Utah, deals directly with Allen, Rodgers, Johannus, etc., to get special pricing for large orders of particular models. The local groups may choose among a limited number of models to purchase at this special price.</P>
I'm not sure just how their money is handled, but I believe local donations are more or less funneled to Salt Lake City and organs are purchased by the national body for the local chapels. I do know that the local organ dealer gets very little out of each LDSsale, bascially just enough to cover the installation and a bit of after-sale service.</P>
John</P>
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John
---------- *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!
Going by Eric McKirdy's list of Rodgers models, it looks like the LDS church is no longer using Rodgers as an approved supplier. All the models listed have been out of production at least 7 or 8 years.</p>
The LDS church is run very much like a corporation. They have managers for a lot of areas, purchasing agents, etc. So organs a pianos (all specified models) are bought in bulk, warehoused and sold through an LDS catalog. So musical instruments for the most part are commodities, just like a fridge or a stove. They generally don't care what they sound like, as the local dealer gets nothing out of the deal. The technician gets his take for merely hooking up the speakers and making sure the volume is about right. Voicing, and customer support from the dealer is likely to be nigh zero.</p>
LDS buildings are called temples, chapels or stake centers. Full name of the church is "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" And of course, they are popularly known as Mormons. There are variations of them such as Re-Organized LDS, Fundamentalist LDS, etc.</p>
BTW, I am not a Mormon. I was just asked to have a look at a pipe organ (Wicks) at a local stake center.</p>
Thanks for the explanations John & Arie, it explains a lot.</p>
I've heard of "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" though not the abbreviation LDS, which is probably what threw me. They do appear to have some prescence in the UK - though I've never actually seen one of their "chapels" on my travels.
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1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.
Hi arie v, I just spoke to Clay Christiansen a couple of days ago about this exact topic. He's the tabernacle organist who sits on the church's MISC (musical instrument selection committee). The LDS church has custom models of Allen, Rodgers, and Johannus. </p>
The Johannus model looks much like a Sweelinck model, but uses the same technology as their Makin line, so the innards are considerably improved, the url for it is here: http://www.johannus.com/wm.cgi?id=815;ws=9</p>
The Allen model is a custom quantum-like instrument, with 2 sets of voices instead of 4 (American Classic and French Romantic). The model also has a few 2nd voices on some of the stops that can be activated by a 2nd voices drawknob.</p>
He did say that if I was interested, he'd email me the the "cut sheets" on all three organs which include all the specifications for each model. I'll send him an email and let you know if he comes back with that information. He also told me they would joke with the Rodgers dealer about their "secret combinations" in reference to the mechanism used to access the second voices on the Rodgers as opposed to the Allen second voices which are printed on each drawknob. This is a joke referring to secret combinations as found in the Book of Mormon (a volume of companion scripture to the Bible used by the LDS church).
He also told me they would joke with the Rodgers dealer about their
"secret combinations" in reference to the mechanism used to access the
second voices on the Rodgers as opposed to the Allen second voices
which are printed on each drawknob. This is a joke referring to secret
combinations as found in the Book of Mormon (a volume of companion
scripture to the Bible used by the LDS church).</p>
</p>
And the Scientologist organs...do they contain the secret combinations for 'Xenu'.....</p>
Beg to differ about the LDS organs being destroyed. At least around here they aren't. I know several people (and small churches of other denominations) that have snapped up bargains when LDS organs were replaced with newer ones.</P>
OTOH, it may be church policy to do that and it just isn't being followed everywhere.</P>
Would be a shame, though. The models they choose and/or design are typically quite practical -- leaving off some of theunnecessary and confusing bells and whistles in favor of the essential and most useful stops and features.And they often replace them long before they are worn out or obsolete, whenever the local Facilities Maintenance director decides one is giving him too much trouble or he's being prodded by the player for a new one.</P>
John</P>
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John
---------- *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!
In the 80's I lived in Grand Junction, Co, (heavy with Mormons). They had just gotten a 13 rank Wicks at one of the stakes, and wanted me to play the dedication recital. I knew that the "chuirch" had only a few digital organs that were approved....in asking how they got the pipe organ, it was explained that, yes the church did pay for the "approved" models but that a stake could buy whatever they wanted....but....they had to pay for it themselves. This particular stake wanted a pipe organ and was willing to pay for it....good for them.</P>
As an aside, Phoenix was approached re: providing a model for the LDS but the restrictions (price, etc) were too extreme so they passed on the offer. Also, as I reported months ago Phoenix is coming out with the Phoenix II series which will have Hauptwerk and Phoenix samples, touchscreens and a nice console....at a very reasonable price.Hopefully they will announce this very soon. They do not have the extensive R & D that A and R have so have to develop this in between building their organs for customers. </P>
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