Taming a Rodgers 205

[John Vanderlee]

We installed the Rodgers 205(pipe/analog hybrid) in the chapel of a nursing home. It's a dead, dead room. While the organist is happy - it replaced an aging Hammond - we need to tame is a bit. It played in a much more live place before.
Would like to make it less harsh. I'm thinking of getting a voicer to tone down the pipe volume, but any suggestions for the analog part? It has lots of adjustments but I don't want to get into trouble there.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
John

[Horseshoe_or]

There should be amps inside the organ that have volume knobs. The trick will be the correct balance between the pipes and electronic stops.

[John Vanderlee]

Yes, but even the pipes seems too loud to me, which would require a pipe voicer. There's a certain "edginess" also to the analog electronic sound which seems more a matter of tone control.
Thanks for the response!
John

[myorgan]

This comment may sound callous, but wouldn't those issues be a good thing for a nursing home. Most elderly have issues with hearing, especially in the upper frequencies, so it might be an asset vs. liability.

Just a thought.

Michael

[Victor Jules]

Interesting thought! Is tone control possible on an electronic organ by turning a particular screw in the innards or something? Could he add an audio interface between the amp(s) and speakers.

[myorgan]

Is tone control possible on an electronic organ by turning a particular screw in the innards or something?

Yes.

Michael

[Victor Jules]

As in treble vs bass?

[myorgan]

As in treble vs bass?

Yes.

Rodgers analog organs have note-by-note adjustments available.

Michael

[Victor Jules]

Cool. Isn't it even more dynamic on their digitals? As I've said regulation is the very weak suit on our'n, and I've got to learn all that sometime.

[toodles]

The 205 includes bass and treble equalizing adjustments for the flute, reed, and principal channels. The tech manual indicates what and where these are in the section on voicing. Also, each tweeter has a volume adjustment for it.

As to the pipes, it might be more feasible to replace the pipes with ones already designed for softer volume--as each pipe would have to be adjusted. Used pipe ranks are usually available at minimal cost, and the 205 has only 49 notes per rank--flute and principal.

Note that the pipe ranks have electronic extension keyers for the missing bottom and top notes.

[Victor Jules]

Thank you, toodles.

[John Vanderlee]

Myorgan, I don't think that's callous at all. It's the reality! Actually I turned my hearing aids off and it did sound better! ;-)
However the organists are younger and my aids are really good so I'm going to study the manual about those individual tone controls. I would not replace the pipes, first they look good, second they're by a good pipe maker (Stinkens of the Netherlands), and you'd have to redo rack boards to make them fit - a lot of work.
Besides, you can soften pipes by closing the toe-holes. Pipe techs have special tools for that.

[myorgan]

Besides, you can soften pipes by closing the toe-holes. Pipe techs have special tools for that.

John,

Be very, very careful of messing with the toe holes of organ pipes. It can change the speech (or ability to speak), under-wind a pipe, giving the organ an odd tone, as making it nearly impossible to voice the electronic extensions on either end of the pipe ranks to blend.

Please be sure to check with our resident pipe organ guys before making any changes (i.e. Michael, aka Pipeorganbuilder, etc.). It will be to the organ's benefit.

Michael

[John Vanderlee]

I may have some local people too who can do that. Don't think I want to attempt it myself.

[jbird604]

As toodles points out, the analog electronic voices can be easily adjusted to bring the volume down and contour the tone to sound right in the room. And if there are only two 49-note ranks of pipes, it shouldn't cost much to have a pipe guy do some regulation.

In a pinch, you MIGHT soften them sufficiently by placing some moderately thick cloth over the fronts of the pipe cases. We have an upright piano at church that was simply too loud and bright for our sanctuary, and it was donated, so we didn't get to choose it. I cut a piece of surplus carpet to fit on the back and stapled it in place. It doesn't look bad at all, and it made an incredible difference in the tone.

I'm not suggesting placing carpet on the pipe case fronts, but some kind of grille cloth or perhaps a felt-backed material might be thick enough to do the job and look quite nice. Of course you'd no longer see the real pipes, and that might be a huge problem.

[John Vanderlee]

I have talked a pipe tech, and we'll probably go that route, then tweak the analog to match. They like seeing the pipes!
Thanks John!

[Organkeys Jones]

Doesn't the 205 have the capability to turn off the pipes and still have all notes? I was thinking it has a control that puts it all under expression because there are analog note generators to replace the pipes. The pipes do look great on the 205. Can't believe John said to cover them up! I've never seen him give bad advice - until now! (ha ha)

The pipes do sound better than the Rodgers stops, but I suspect those folks would be happy seeing the pipes, and hearing only analog under expression.

[jbird604]

LOL! I have certainly given my share of bad advice, but appreciate the compliment!

It may well be possible (and desirable) to play the electronics without the pipes, though that seems such a shame, the pipes certainly sound far better than the fairly primitive electronics in there. But "seeing" pipes sometimes makes people think they are "hearing" pipes!

[Organkeys Jones]

I almost wrote what you said, John jbird604: "seeing" pipes sometimes makes people think they are "hearing" pipes! It really is a psychological effect.

[toodles]

The 205 has a control marked" * Stops Enclosed", the "*" being a bullet. I believe it only put the electronic stops under expression, but does not turn off the pipes. The organist would have to select only the electronic stops to ensure the pipes don't sound.

I actually thought JBirds suggestion to be sensible and a quick solution. If you have to "see the pipes", put an acrylic or glass plate in front of them, and provide a dampened material in the back, and they could speak through that. Of course, this won't work on the towers, where the speakers are behind the pipes, but might limit the voicing to those 12 or so pipes.

[Organkeys Jones]

We need John Vanderlee to check out the "Stops Enclosed" because I think it does turn off the pipes, but it's been a long time since I played a 205.

[toodles]

Of course another option would be to make swell shades to put in front of the pipes--they could be plexiglas if you wanted to see the pipes.

The tech manual indicates that the "stops enclosed" control only provides for electronic expression, it does not say it turns off pipes. But then, the tech manuals don't always cover everything, and any specific Rodgers installation might have been customized.

[John Vanderlee]

Pipes are always on.

[Organkeys Jones]

Thanks for the clarification!

[Opie56]

Another thing to remember, most of the pipes on the Rodgers packages were "factory voiced" - translation: made to speak, and be in regulation with each other - while in a voicing room, this may be fine, they still need to be "finish-voiced" to the room. And, since they will most likely be "open-toe", there's a lot of playing around with the mouth that has to be done, as well as possible nicking, etc. Best way to go about it is to have a qualified finisher come in and make them "work in the room", and then regulate the 'tronics. :) (Been-there-done-that with at least three of the Rodgers packages)...

[John Vanderlee]

Thank you. Although with these times and coming into a retirement home to do that...:-P