Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Allen ADC-2010

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Allen ADC-2010

    Hello all, new member here (though I've read with interest a number of the public posts as a non-member for quite some time)! I've recently acquired an Allen ADC 2010 (1983) and I'm looking for some guidance.
    1. What do you all think of this organ for use as a practice/learning instrument? I was checked out by a local Allen tech from Allen Organ DC a few years ago in its prior location and found to be in good working order (at the time).
    2. I've got it in a pretty small room (which I had to literally take trim off the door-posts of to get it into)! and there isn't much room for the two external speakers (which I believe are HC-14s, according to my paperwork). One looks fine sitting on top of the console, but two is a bit much (and has to then block part of a window). There aren't that many more options of where to put them, other than perhaps mounting them near the ceiling in two opposite ends of the room, but again given the small room, aesthetically this would be far from ideal. Given all this, I'm wondering - does this organ require both speakers, or could it do with only one? Are they L/R channels like an stereo amplifier, or both sending the same amplified sound? Would there be any adverse technical effects on the organ or remaining speaker if I disconnected one (perhaps semi-permanently)?
    3. The organ is plugged into an Allen transient suppressor module (which I assume is a surge protector of sorts?), which makes a bit of a buzz. Is this normal, and any suggestions on how to determine whether the surge protection is still working and active, or if it should be replaced (if the latter, by what?)?
    4. One of the HC-14 speakers has a pretty evident hum (and occasional soft crackle sound). When playing louder music it's not really a problem but otherwise it's a bit annoying (especially since both speakers are currently sitting right on top of the console aimed directly at the organist). Any direction on where to start troubleshooting that and what might be the issue? It does not seem related to the transient suppressor buzz, as I have tried the organ without the suppressor plugged in.
    5. Another speaker question - can I install one of the two speakers as antiphonal organ (possibly in the next room, where I can still hear it if the door is open)? The organ does appear to have the appropriate stop tabs for this (the only two under "Gen." section are "main organ off" and "antiphonal organ on").
    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by InspiredtoAspire; 01-16-2020, 03:13 PM.
    Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
    -------
    Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
    Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

  • #2
    I know there's a ton of expertise represented on this forum and very much appreciate any advice and thoughts you may have for this newbie who has loved organs for a very long time and is excited to have this opportunity to get into it more deeply again! I know I asked alot of questions - if anyone has thoughts on only a particular item I asked about, happy for that too!
    Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
    -------
    Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
    Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

    Comment


    • #3
      Inspired to Aspire,

      I wrote a response to this post, but for some reason it either didn't post or isn't here. Anyway . . . .

      Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
      Hello all, new member here (though I've read with interest a number of the public posts as a non-member for quite some time)! I've recently acquired an Allen ADC 2010 (1983) and I'm looking for some guidance.
      * What do you all think of this organ for use as a practice/learning instrument? I was checked out by a local Allen tech from Allen Organ DC a few years ago in its prior location and found to be in good working order (at the time).
      * I've got it in a pretty small room (which I had to literally take trim off the door-posts of to get it into)! and there isn't much room for the two external speakers (which I believe are HC-14s, according to my paperwork). One looks fine sitting on top of the console, but two is a bit much (and has to then block part of a window). There aren't that many more options of where to put them, other than perhaps mounting them near the ceiling in two opposite ends of the room, but again given the small room, aesthetically this would be far from ideal. Given all this, I'm wondering - does this organ require both speakers, or could it do with only one? Are they L/R channels like an stereo amplifier, or both sending the same amplified sound? Would there be any adverse technical effects on the organ or remaining speaker if I disconnected one (perhaps semi-permanently)?
      Your ADC-2010 should suffice for home practice. I would stick with 2 speakers, though. There are other alternatives than putting them on the organ. They can be stacked on top of each other (they are only 18" square), or if you can find some HC-13 speakers (smaller form factor), they should work just as well. Half the stops from the organ come out of one speaker, while the other half come out of the other speaker.

      Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
      * The organ is plugged into an Allen transient suppressor module (which I assume is a surge protector of sorts?), which makes a bit of a buzz. Is this normal, and any suggestions on how to determine whether the surge protection is still working and active, or if it should be replaced (if the latter, by what?)?
      There are 2 possibilities for the transient suppressor: 1.It needs to be grounded, 2.It is going bad. I had one of the transient suppressors go bad due to either a lightning strike or power outage at the church where it is located. Probably a stupid choice, but I haven't replaced it yet.

      Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
      * One of the HC-14 speakers has a pretty evident hum (and occasional soft crackle sound). When playing louder music it's not really a problem but otherwise it's a bit annoying (especially since both speakers are currently sitting right on top of the console aimed directly at the organist). Any direction on where to start troubleshooting that and what might be the issue? It does not seem related to the transient suppressor buzz, as I have tried the organ without the suppressor plugged in.
      The hum in the speaker may have something to do with the antiphonal relay you have inside the console. To troubleshoot the issue, follow the audio signal from the source. Switch the amplifier inputs (RCA) between amplifiers and see if the issue switches speakers. If it does, you now know which amplifier to look at. Then try switching speakers from the relays to the speakers to see if the issue switches speakers. Narrow down one thing at a time until you have isolated the issue to one component in the audio chain. Then the real troubleshooting begins.

      Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
      * Another speaker question - can I install one of the two speakers as antiphonal organ (possibly in the next room, where I can still hear it if the door is open)? The organ does appear to have the appropriate stop tabs for this (the only two under "Gen." section are "main organ off" and "antiphonal organ on").
      While the organ has the two tabs, it may not have the antiphonal relays inside the organ. Are your speakers connected from an antiphonal relay, or are they connected directly from the amplifiers? When you swith the Main Organ Off, or Antiphonal Organ On, you should hear a soft click inside the organ as the relays switch.

      One more thing. I realize you have the speakers directed toward you, sitting on top of the organ. However, what about facing them away from each other, or diagonally at a 45˚ angle from each other? That way you aren't hearing direct sound from the speakers, and any anomalies would be less prominent.

      Welcome to the Forum, and I hope you continue to participate here for years to come!

      Michael
      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks so much for the thoughts and suggestions, Michael. Looks like I've got some fun diagnostics and playing around to do so I will report back!

        Also, the HC-14s are 18x18 width and depth but they are 33 inches tall, so they're pretty big! Will try to post a picture of the set-up when I check back in so folks can get an idea of what I'm looking at. It's in a corner so I don't think I could rotate the one that's in the corner. Can they sit sideways/horizontally without affecting the audio? Anyhow, will investigate further...
        Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
        -------
        Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
        Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

        Comment


        • davidecasteel
          davidecasteel commented
          Editing a comment
          I believe those speakers could be arranged any way that would be convenient--I've seen photos where they are laid on their sides and even on their backs.

      • #5
        Regarding the noise in the speaker, you can swap the speaker cables from each of the speaker cabinets and see if the noise stays with the speaker or moves with the audio channel.

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
          Can they sit sideways/horizontally without affecting the audio?
          Yes, you can place them on their sides, back, top, or bottom. I would not, however, place them with the speakers (especially the woofer) too close to a wall. The back compression may cause issues.

          When placing the speakers, especially in such a small space, look for angles or places where the sound can reflect rather than speak directly into your ears. There is a certain amount of noise/sound one can audibly hear from the speakers in close proximity. However, when placed in a church setting, those sounds are lost in the open space.

          Be inventive, and be sure to take pictures.

          Michael
          Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
          • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
          • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
          • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos

          Comment


          • #7
            It also may make sense to consider replacing the big Allen speakers with something smaller, like good-quality bookshelf speakers. If you're handy, you could even build your own to save money and customize their performance and appearance. You might need a subwoofer to handle the 16' stops though, since most bookshelf speakers can't get down to 32 Hz.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by myorgan View Post

              While the organ has the two tabs, it may not have the antiphonal relays inside the organ. Are your speakers connected from an antiphonal relay, or are they connected directly from the amplifiers? When you swith the Main Organ Off, or Antiphonal Organ On, you should hear a soft click inside the organ as the relays switch.

              Michael
              Have not yet gotten a chance to pull the organ out enough to get back behind there again since setting it up to swap speakers connections or look at which terminals they are connected to yet, but I did notice that the tabs for Main Organ Off and Antiphonal Organ On do absolutely nothing - no click that I can hear, no difference in sound from what I can tell, so my hunch is that the two speakers are just connected normally to whatever the main amp output in there is, and the two tabs are just filling space.
              Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
              -------
              Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
              Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

              Comment


              • #9
                The tabs were usually in place just in case relays were added. If you don't hear a click then I am sure the relays were never installed.

                Comment


                • #10
                  Alright! Time for a few updates!

                  Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
                  Hello all, new member here (though I've read with interest a number of the public posts as a non-member for quite some time)! I've recently acquired an Allen ADC 2010 (1983) and I'm looking for some guidance.[*]What do you all think of this organ for use as a practice/learning instrument? It was checked out by a local Allen tech from Allen Organ DC a few years ago in its prior location and found to be in good working order (at the time).
                  I have been finding this to be a great organ for my needs so far. I only had about a year or so of organ lessons back in high school (though I have played the piano many years) so has been really exciting to revisit this in earnest! I've included some photos of the organ stop tabs here as well (not including the 2 antiphonal organ ones which as mentioned appear to just do nothing with this setup).

                  Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
                  [*]The organ is plugged into an Allen transient suppressor module (which I assume is a surge protector of sorts?), which makes a bit of a buzz. Is this normal, and any suggestions on how to determine whether the surge protection is still working and active, or if it should be replaced (if the latter, by what?)?
                  So after some research and experimentation I've determined that 1) the Allen transient suppressor module buzz isn't really audible above the general organ buzz when the module/unit is back behind or to the side of the organ so it's not bothering me, and 2) that for extra precaution I wanted to use a newer surge protector (whether in addition or instead of it). After searching around both on the internet and this forum (https://organforum.com/forums/social...rge-protection, https://organforum.com/forums/social...rge-protection, https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...-clarification, https://organforum.com/forums/social...ent-suppressor, https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...nt-suppressors, https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...nt-suppressors) I purchased a Tripp Lite Isobar 4 Outlet Surge Protector Power Strip, (ISOBAR4ULTRA) which appears to have superior technology to most basic power strips (and is rated at 3330 joules) as well as a Leviton 7280-T surge-protected in-wall outlet, which is rated lower at 720 joules of surge protection, hence the double protection). Still trying to decide if I should therefore do away with the Allen transient suppressor unit or just keep it inline between the Tripp Lite Isobar and the organ itself. Any thoughts on this?
                  Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
                  -------
                  Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
                  Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

                  Comment


                  • davidecasteel
                    davidecasteel commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Looking at the Stop tabs, I find it interesting that the Swell has a 16' stop but the Great does not.

                • #11

                  Originally posted by InspiredtoAspire View Post
                  [LIST/][*]I've got it in a pretty small room (which I had to literally take trim off the door-posts of to get it into)! and there isn't much room for the two external speakers (which I believe are HC-14s, according to my paperwork). One looks fine sitting on top of the console, but two is a bit much (and has to then block part of a window). There aren't that many more options of where to put them, other than perhaps mounting them near the ceiling in two opposite ends of the room, but again given the small room, aesthetically this would be far from ideal. Given all this, I'm wondering - does this organ require both speakers, or could it do with only one? Are they L/R channels like an stereo amplifier, or both sending the same amplified sound? Would there be any adverse technical effects on the organ or remaining speaker if I disconnected one (perhaps semi-permanently)?[*]One of the HC-14 speakers has a pretty evident hum (and occasional soft crackle sound). When playing louder music it's not really a problem but otherwise it's a bit annoying (especially since both speakers are currently sitting right on top of the console aimed directly at the organist). Any direction on where to start troubleshooting that and what might be the issue? It does not seem related to the transient suppressor buzz, as I have tried the organ without the suppressor plugged in.[*]Another speaker question - can I install one of the two speakers as antiphonal organ (possibly in the next room, where I can still hear it if the door is open)? The organ does appear to have the appropriate stop tabs for this (the only two under "Gen." section are "main organ off" and "antiphonal organ on").[/LIST]Thanks in advance!


                  As far as this goes, take a look at these photos as well. You can see the speakers on top of the organ, which is how I've had it for a while, but I just recently took them off and they are temporarily stacked on my desk (which sits immediately to the left of the organ (Those two items take up that entire wall, and the other walls are covered in bookshelves in this very small room). I'm considering mounting them in the corners of that wall (one above the organ and one above the desk). Would love any thoughts on how that may affect sound (and of course I have aesthetics to consider as well). As to the crackle/static that comes through from time to time, I thought it was just one speaker and tested this by swapping the speaker cables (at the back of the organ where they are screwed in) but it didn't seem to make much of a difference and in the process I noticed it seems to come from both intermittently, although with the speakers further away it's definitely less annoying. So, I'm kind of back where I started with that. I did notice that the inside "dome" of the one speaker is no longer convex (appears to have been bumped in a bit) - would that affect sound? Would appreciate any other diagnostic suggestions!
                  Last edited by InspiredtoAspire; 02-17-2020, 02:53 PM.
                  Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
                  -------
                  Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
                  Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    And one more thing (let me know if I should be posting this as a new thread instead)...

                    As I'm spending more time playing this organ, I've anticipated an issue may come to light here and there. Two have:
                    1. One or two keys seem to intermittently sound, meaning they usually work but once in a while no sound comes out when I play them. I assume the contacts are worn out in some way and I recall observing an Allen tech solder one or two of these on this organ in the church it was in previously. Is that probably the issue, and could I fix it myself?
                    2. The transposer switch is wigging out - I am trying to recall if the red light on the transposer goes on only when it's engaged in transposing to a different key, or if it's just supposed to be on all the time. Anyhow, of late the transposer light has not been on at all, except that every now and then it randomly starts blinking/flashing rapidly, at which time the organ kind of loses its tone - not sure how to describe it, but it sort of cuts in and out like there's a bad connection or something. Only for matter of seconds, and then it's back to normal. I found this thread, and wondering if that could be the same issue (https://organforum.com/forums/social...ponder-problem), but if anyone has ideas or advice, that would be awesome.
                    Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
                    -------
                    Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
                    Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      If you haven't done a complete "routine maintenance" on this organ, you should do that. This process might solve some or all your problems. Very difficult to troubleshoot individual problems until the maintenance has been done and you are sure that everything inside the console is clean and tight, verified the power supply voltages, etc.
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Thanks, John. This organ had the full once over by Jerry McDermott of Allen Organ DC in 2015 (he's since retired but they have a newer tech now) - I'm not sure what all he did but he did fix the keys at the time that didn't consistently play, change the battery pack (I think) and mess with lots of things in back. Since then the organ was used a bit, then sat unused for a while, and was just recently moved (to my home, as it's now become mine). How often do you recommend that kind of "routine maintenance" and is the best option for a newbie to just have an Allen tech out to do it? I don't mind giving things a shot but maybe I should watch somebody do it first...
                        Last edited by InspiredtoAspire; 02-18-2020, 07:16 AM. Reason: clarification
                        Inspired by greatness in others to aspire to play better myself
                        -------
                        Allen ADC-2010 (Digital, 1983)
                        Allen 416-TH (Theater, 1975) - broken

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          The transposer red light should be on when transposing, off when not. Mine comes on sometimes when it's in the neutral position. Excercising the switch turns it off suggesting that the contacts are dirty. Try spraying the switch contacts with DeOxit.
                          -Admin

                          Allen 965
                          Zuma Group Midi Keyboard Encoder
                          Zuma Group DM Midi Stop Controller
                          Hauptwerk 4.2

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X