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**you795a** · 02-18-2020, 08:42 PM

The 4 channel is standard, 2 swell, 2 great. The 5th channel is for a subwoofer for the great manual and pedals. With the additional bass cabinet, channel 3 stays the same but the channel 4 is divided between an upper bass and a lower bass (4J and 4Y). 4Y is the subwoofer and 4J is connected to a standard speaker cabinet like channel 3.

**jbird604** · 02-19-2020, 06:39 AM

Some random thoughts on your question, BO...

An Allen from 1973 would of course be a MOS-1, but that doesn't tell the whole story. It could be a small basic model, in which case almost any newer organ would be a great improvement. Or it could be one of the very large or custom MOS-1 models, a real masterpiece and musical delight that may still be making wonderful music in spite of its age. In that case, a new organ would be a musical improvement only if the new one actually has better audio equipment than the old one and is to be installed and voiced with care and musical sensitivity.

While the idea of getting a Renaissance model seems attractive -- newer technology, newer hardware -- a big drawback is that the voicing can only be done in detail using DOVE on a computer connected to the organ. DOVE is a proprietary program, may or may not be available to you, as it is supposedly only in the hands of dealers and approved techs. The possibility of voicing it yourself or making subtle week to week changes is gone or at least difficult.

When I had my R-230 at home, I can only say that I spent MANY hours with DOVE before I was satisfied with the sound. And I go out to service many a Renaissance and get the distinct impression that little or no actual voicing was done after the delivery, as certain "quirks" in the sound seem to have been characteristic of "factory" voicing. Personally, I wouldn't want a Renaissance organ if I didn't have access to DOVE and the skill to use it so I could keep working on the voicing for days or even weeks after the dealer walked away.

The MDS is older, but not that much older. The hardware is simpler and parts can generally be changed out by anyone with reasonable technical skill. Voicing is by mini pots, same as ADC organs, easily accomplished without computer or special software. But it's also true that not all MDS models sound wonderful, and at times you come up against the limitations of how much voicing can be done with the stops divided into a finite number of groups.

The prices quoted could be reasonable. Not knowing just what the dealer is offering, and what obstacles this particular installation might involve, I can't judge from here. I wouldn't of course pay that kind of money for any organ "as is" from a non-dealer, but if the dealer's organs have been genuinely renovated and restored to like-new condition -- 100% maintenance performed, any faulty or worn parts replaced, speakers rebuilt as needed -- and if the price includes delivery and installation, professional voicing on the site, and some kind of warranty, then it may be perfectly reasonable.

**michaelhoddy** · 02-19-2020, 06:54 AM

Especially the late MDS organs don't give up very much, if anything, in my opinion, to the early Renaissance organs in terms of sound quality, and if you can get a larger second-gen MDS for the same or less money than a smaller Renaissance, that seems like a great idea. MDS tonality is not "worse" as much as "different," with the MDS generally being more in line with the neo-classic sound of the Larry Phelps era of Allen, and the early Renaissance channeling more of an E.M Skinner late romantic/symphonic type of voicing.

The one notable exception to this is if you have a small or dry-sounding room, in which case I think the Renaissance organs do a notably better job, between sounding smoother up close, and the improved Allen Virtual Acoustics that introduced on the series. I also think the really small 2-channel MDS organs sound that way- small and forced, while the small Renaissance organs do a better job with that footprint.

**toodles** · 02-19-2020, 08:04 AM

J Nelson & Co in northern California has an R-270 available for $15,000, so the R-250 at $20,000 seems high to me for a smaller model, though the CA organ probably does not allow for trade-in nor anything but a simple local installation. The R270 seems a bargain.

**Bach-On** · 02-19-2020, 09:42 PM

I heard today that the dealer has had the R-250 for almost a year. Don't know what speakers come with it. The business people want to haggle.

First, thank you for the input. I still lean towards the Renaissance model, though I do want to listen to both organs.

My wife took me to look at the Sanctuary today. nice spacious room. High flat ceiling with ornamental wood beams to break up the flat. Balcony was added many years ago. I see some places where rear speakers could be added to open up the sound stage.

The older installed organ has a pretty large console. Way bigger than a 600 series. Big-wide bench - but not adjustable. 4 alterable tabs on each manual, but none on the pedal division. I didn't examine the card reader system closely. And it has that preset capture system where the tabs don't all go down together. They start on the left and cycle up towards the right. Same plan when you clear them. 6 generals pre-sets, 6 swell buttons, 6 great buttons and 6 pedal buttons. I didn't see how many different sets of presets were allowed. Transposer. Didn't see a Chiff, but didn't look all that close. Seems like two was standard in the MOS series.

It has those open back speakers. I've played an Allen 301, 601, and 603 and a 1203. This was more than a 301 or 600 series. Tabs in two rows. Two 32 foot tabs. It didn't sound all that bad.

The speaker chamber is behind a wide expanse of facade organ pipes. I'd estimate the opening (it's in an arch is about 14 to 16 feet from end to end). The choir loft is below the facade. Three rows (maybe 18 feet wide). The bottom of the chamber opening is perhaps 6 ft above the heads of the choir. I felt the organ was light in the bass - particular in that 32 foot range. Those open backed speakers just can't do those lows. I felt it was voiced rather bright in the upper voices. Full organ sounds were rather shrill sounding to me. The 8 foot stops weren't that solid. I recall that the MOS series had issues if you tried to use the 8 foot diapason and 8 foot flute at the same time. It would produce distortion. Did I dream that?

No antiphonal speakers and no tabs for it on the existing organ. I was advised that some members thought the organ was sometimes too loud. I can see why. I pointed out that sometimes the quality of the tonal finishing could modify the issues that made people feel that way.

I don't know what model of MDS the dealer has. I was told he wants $16,000 for it.

I have the DOVE software for our R-230 and found a laptop with a serial port. Will the same software work for the R-250? My wife, however, is far less prone to want to do voicing. Most of you know it's almost a sickness for me.

They have a choir director and the organ is arranged so the organist can see the director by looking at a slight angle to the left.

The dealership is about 60 miles from the church. I don't think a forklift would be required to move the console. But it will need to be lifted over 3 foot modesty wall. Sweat will be involved. The old and new speakers would have to go up and down some steps (maybe 15 in all - with a 180 degree turn. No hard turns to get into the speaker chamber. Lots of space. The old speakers were turned towards the rear wall of the chamber. I don't think any serious carpentry will be required.

This is my wife's church, not mine. She's only been there a couple of months. Attendance is generally running between 100 and 125 per service. Praise services are in another room. They actually have two contemporary services. That's why the feeling is that funds for a new latest-greatest organ would be a hard sell.

One of the trustees (actually a former pastor there) his wife (who used to be the organist), the choir director and his wife, my wife and I will be going Friday to see and hear.

I'll know more after that.

Again, thanks for the valuable input.

What is the usual warranty on a used instrument? The tech lives near us. It's about 18 miles to the church. Would an MDS or Renaissance have comparable reliability? And can parts be found for both?

BO

**jbird604** · 02-20-2020, 08:00 PM

Not sure what that old MOS is, if it is indeed larger than a 603. The 603 was in the "D" console, and the only larger console is the "C" model, which is enormous and was reserved for certain huge drawknob models, and of course custom organs when ordered with it. The presence of the "sequential" combination action is consistent with the date of 1973, as that type of action was phased out around 1974 to 1975. And the open-back cabinets are also common throughout the 70's on MOS organs.

Is it two manuals or three? Tabs or drawknobs? How many expression pedals, and how are they marked? Celeste tuning or celeste "effect" on any of the manuals?

Anyway, since it has the default set of two 32' pedal stops, it is probably a stock MOS model. As we all know, MOS organs were revolutionary in their day, and even now in the right kind of acoustic setting they can sound amazingly pipe-like and exciting. (If this one is light on the bass, perhaps it could be helped by some adjustment of the bass boost controls on the DAC boards, or, if there is a bass boost amp and speaker, by turning up the volume on that channel.)

But MOS organs are of course now quite dated in many ways, no MIDI, no way to individually adjust the stops for level, tuning, scaling, etc. And lock-step tuning of all stops, though that is largely offset in the larger models by the use of "doubling" -- dual computers tuned slightly apart. All in all, a more modern organ has many advantages over a MOS, though one could not say that "any Renaissance beats any MOS" -- certainly a tiny little 2-channel Renaissance organ is not going to do well replacing a huge old MOS organ with 8 or 10 audio channels.

But the R-250 you're talking about has four or five channels, and probably has the Heritage speakers and possibly an "SR" subwoofer, so an R-250 is probably up to the task of replacing at least a MOS 603 or even a MOS 631 or 632 three-manual, as these models only had four or five audio channels as well. However, if that old MOS happens to be a 1203 or larger, such a small Renaissance might seem like a downgrade in terms of musical resources.

The three-manual MDS you mention also might or might not be an upgrade over the old MOS, as far as resources. The smallest three-manual Renaissance models were rather weak in resources, being based on the standard Ren-II cage, with its 32-stop limit and four-channel output (optional 5th channel for bass boost). So there is a good bit of borrowing and unification required to put 40 or 45 stops on the rail. But larger MDS three-manual organs of course have more channels and more true resources.

All that said, I have seen simple four or five channel models in both MDS and Renaissance technology installed in good sized churches, which filled them well with sound. The acoustic liveness of the church makes a huge difference, of course. A "dead" church just won't give the organ any help, so if the organ is undersized you'll really know it.

BTW, I am not a fan of antiphonal speakers. Some dealers seem obsessed with selling new organs with antiphonal speakers. I suppose it adds some profit to a deal without pushing the customer up to a bigger organ model. But in truth I almost never hear or play one where the antiphonal does anything useful. Now, a genuine antiphonal DIVISION may be a useful thing -- a set of stops that only play from a secondary location. But just some switches to send some or all the sound to secondary speakers in the rear... I'm never impressed with that.

**Bach-On** · 02-20-2020, 08:32 PM

JBird - Thanks for the info. I should have taken a picture. Like I said, it didn't have a BAD sound, though I thought the voicing needed work. It didn't have enough 8 foot foundation and had too much 4 foot.

I saw something indicating that the R-250 sometimes came with a B20. I'm not a fan of that speaker, but I don't get a vote in it.

We were supposed to be at the dealer's showroom in the morning at 10. Snow came in and it is supposed to be real cold in the morning. I suspect a reschedule could happen.

I read through your saga of getting your R-230. Did they not come with amps and speakers for the four channels? You had to do some amp and speaker razzle-dazle to convert yours to four channels. I don't understand. Seems like all 4 channels would be utilized without having to convert it from just two channels. Are the two extra channels significantly better?

BTW, I was finally able to hear one of those Walker Quakers. They can play those 32 foot lowest notes with ease. The concern would be the contact with the floor in the speaker chamber at my wife's church. They don't have pipes to pick up sympathetic vibrations like at my church, but even one could shake the support beams for the floor if played too loud. And the metal pipe facade could rattle and buzz.

The bad news is that 11 or 12 week lead time to get a Quaker from Walker. Seems like it was $1,150 plus about $300 in shipping for a black utility finish. Wood grain finishes are slightly higher. If you've never heard one, you should. I had to drive 150 miles to get to a church with one, then back. Way better than the Allen B40s. We have a B40 at my church. It won't quite get to 16 Hz. The Quaker will do it very well. If I read the specs right, the Renaissance has a fifth channel just for the 32 foot stops. Is that right? I assume it would need it's own amp.

Regarding Antiphonal Speakers - (getting out my soapbox) - my read is different than yours on that. We can both remember when car radios only had one speaker. The modern basic car radio/player/etc. has four or more speakers. I think I've become accustomed to that. It adds a spaciousness to the sound. I think congregational members have grown used to the "QUAD" type car radio setup.

The Allen 301 that was installed at our church back in 1975 had two sets of open back speakers. Incidentally, those were not the same open back speakers that are on the older Allen at my wife's church. I don't remember what the model number of those things was, but we had speaker chambers on each side of the front wall - perhaps 15 to 18 feet above the floor of the Sanctuary. There was an opening out towards the congregation and another into the recessed choir loft for each chamber. The speakers stood upright and were made out of that blonde wood finish. The tab rail had a couple of blank tabs. We later added a pair of speakers at the front of the balcony - one on each side of the Sanctuary. I could play front, rear or combined. I actually used it for some echo - song and response stuff for preludes and offertories. BTW - Allen organ actually had a factory in Rocky Mount, NC at that time. It was named Rocky Mount Instruments. They made various components in that factory at the time - including assembly of some of the speakers, pedalboards and benches. It was about 14 miles from the church where we installed the 301, and later a 603.

Anyway, we had two speakers mounted on the wall at the front of the balcony, Those tabs could be programmed into the presets to switch among: front only, antiphonal only, or both. I used them for echo effects. There were song and response pieces that could go from front, to rear and back. I thought it was a neat effect. I used the toe studs to switch back and forth. We have a pair of PP4s in our music room to give our R-230 that same Antiphonal effect. I added a 15 inch closed wood cabinet with dual voice coils to provide some lower sounds for the rear speakers.

Now that the newer organs have settings to modify the sense of room size, it seems - at least to my ears - the antiphonal speakers add to that sense of spaciousness. I like real spaciousness more than the artificial stuff created with reverb and such effects.

We don't have to agree on that, of course. It's just what I've come to appreciate.

BO

**Bach-On** · 02-21-2020, 05:38 AM

I'm having trouble with the DOVE software that allows adjustment to the Renaissance organs.

I have a serial cable that plugs into the appropriate socket on our R-230. It snakes beside the console then plugs into the serial port on our older laptop. I bought the older laptop because it had a serial port. It's an older Dell with an Intel Core Duo processor. It had Windows XP loaded on it when purchased. I updated to Windows 7.

I can get the DOVE program to install and load. I'm given the opportunity to set the com port. The only one that seems to work is COM1. I get an error if I select COM2. So selecting COM1. Then I select test communication. The computer tries for about 20 seconds and presents a window saying communication could not be established,

Thus, no changes can be made to the organ.

I looked through a list of program options after DOVE was installed. I saw mentions of Windows 95 and Windows 97. So I figure this is older software. I bought it from Allen. It isn't some knock off copy.

I tried running the program as Administer.

I may need to run it as a Windows 95 or 97 program within Windows 7. Or, do I need to actually run the computer with Windows 95 or 97 as the operating system? Does it only run from a DOS Prompt. My computer days go back to well before Windows.

I saw only R-230 items in the list of files after the program was installed. Is the DOVE program specific to only one model of the Renaissance Organs?

Finally, would Allen even consider upgrading my DOVE software to a later version of the program? I want to say I paid several hundred bucks for this program when we bought it. $700 sticks in my head, though I'm not certain of that.

This is like having a left-handed monkey wrench!!!

Frustrated Off BO

**jbird604** · 02-21-2020, 07:29 AM

It may be that the serial cable you need is not just a plain vanilla serial cable, but a slightly modified one called a "null modem" cable. It has a couple of wire pairs reversed from end to end. It has been many years since I bought the cable I use with DOVE, so I can't be certain of that. Perhaps someone else knows for sure.

And I don't know what versions of Windows it will run under either. I have it installed on an old XP machine that I use only for DOVE. I did try installing it on my current Windows 10 laptop, and it said it couldn't run on that version.

Since I'm no longer closely associated with a dealer, I'm not up on the latest about DOVE. I noticed when a rep from the Memphis dealer was over here a few months ago to voice a new "Genesys" organ he'd sold to a friend of mine, he was connecting his computer to that organ via USB instead of the old 9-pin serial cable. Perhaps newer versions of DOVE actually run on newer Windows versions and use different hardware too. I just don't know.

As to converting an R-230 to four channels -- it's not brain surgery, but also not for the faint of heart. I had to build a new audio cable to run from the cage to the amps, had to find a four-channel amp to replace the two-channel unit it came with, make up a four-channel fanning strip to come out of that amp, and add a second antiphonal relay to switch the speakers on and off (so I could use headphones).

After adding all that new hardware, I had to fire up DOVE and go into the signal routing page, where I directed the various stop groups that make up the swell division into the previously un-used two output channels on the Ren-II cage. I only knew how to do this because I had seen a dealer rep years ago altering the distribution of stops among the output channels on a small three-manual. As I said, it's not brain surgery, but you must know what you are doing, as you can totally screw things up.

While I was in there via DOVE, I changed the reverb system from stereo to quad and directed the rear or reflective channels to the same speakers I was using for the swell, since those speakers were placed behind me on the organ bench. This sounds like a lot of work, and indeed it occupied me for several days, but I was pleased with the outcome. If only I hadn't sold my sweet R-230!!! But this guy made me an offer $$$ I couldn't refuse...

The Ren-II cage has five potential output channels, but the fifth one is simply a bass crossover channel. It is in parallel with channel 4, but it has a low-pass filter which limits its output to frequencies under about 100 Hz, which you can direct into a fifth amplifier and a subwoofer. It is useful for boosting the lowest portion of the heavy pedal stops. It has an unfortunate side effect on Ren-II models with "interleaved" stops (stops that bounce their notes back and forth between two channels) -- I discovered this when voicing an R-280 years ago -- every other note in the lower portion of the keyboard on those interleaved stops is going to sound bassier, and it can be a real pain to even those notes out. (These notes are bassier because they are being boosted by the subwoofer, while the notes in the alternate channel are not.)

Note that the R-230 does not have interleaved stops, so this does not apply. However, I think the R-250 does have some interleaved stops.

**Bach-On** · 02-21-2020, 01:15 PM

I just did some searching around on the install CD for that DOVE software. My copy of DOVE us version 4.00 - dated 2000.

I did some reading on data files from the install CD. It says my version of DOVE runs on Windows 95 or 98. I just ordered an install CD with registration number for Windows 95.

I also bought a null modem cable in case what we have is the wrong kind. The only issue is that I'll have to pull the organ out of the closet and change out the cable at the rear. I mounted the organ on a movable platform. It ain't easy to do, but I can change it out.

I believe we bought the organ in 2007. The original warranty ran out in 2010. So we had just over 2 years left when we purchased it. I believe we paid around $14,500 for it - I flew up to see the instrument and bought it that day (had some inheritance money). Then it was something like a grand to ship it from Piqua, Ohio. There was a transfer fee for the warranty and the DOVE software. That came to more than we would typically spend for something like this. My wife was playing for a church out in the boondocks about 20 miles away. I was playing at the same church I'm at now. We are both paid, so we were able to write off part of the cost of the organ over a five year period.

My church pays me as a contractor, rather than an employee. That means I can take a few extra tax deductions here and there. We both like the instrument. My wife changed churches not long after we bought the R-230. She moved to a church with an organ that was almost identical to our home organ. That helped her get her registration worked out at the house. Then she has a general idea of what will sound good. It has just occurred to me that the organ at her previous church might be the same model of Renaissance (R-250 or R-270 or maybe even the R-280) that her current church is considering buying used. Snow kept us from going today as planned to see and hear the instrument. They've snow-checked the demo until next Friday. We'll know more then.

I'm thinking the speakers included and whatever warranty (if any) will be included would impact the price. I don't see any serious structural issues in the church. Get the organs in and out of the place they do and will sit is mainly brute lifting by several people. Some of the local people can be utilized to help with that process. And there are steps down to the ground level. But it isn't like having to lower and raise it from some balcony install.

I would like to get DOVE to work so I can tinker with the balance on our home 230. The pedals are IMHO too loud.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to pull off the kind of electronics razzle-dazzle JBird pulled on his home R-230. But his experience gives me an indication of what to look and listen for in the organ being offered for sale.

BO

**Bach-On** · 02-22-2020, 08:29 AM

I'm not ready to pass out cigars, but I MAY have the DOVE software functioning within Windows 7. You can set the operating system to run programs in compatibility mode. It works sometimes. Other times it does not. And sometimes it will run but NOT support every feature.

I consider the fact that it runs is a positive sign. Failure to establish a connection with the organ could be the program, or the cable, as JBird suggested. He has a cable that works for his R-230, but he isn't certain what cable type it is. From what I can see, there looks to be at least three or four cables that LOOK pretty much the same, though the connection of the wires is different (see addition at the end of this post).

Anyone else have a cable that works for this purpose that can give me more specifics.

Our organ is installed with the rear of the console in a closet. The port for the serial cable (and MIDI) ports are in the rear. You must take the rear board off to gain access to them.

I have a MIDI cable that works like a charm. I have what I THOUGHT would do the trick for DOVE. Then I plug them into my laptop when needed. I keep these tucked mostly out of sight until they are needed.

Did I mention that the DOVE cable might be my problem? ðŸ˜€

So I'll have to pull the organ out of the closet. The pedalboard and bench sits on a separate platform on wheels. I usually remove the bench, unlatch the pedalboard from the console and prop the platform, bench and pedals up out in the hallway. I designed and built the platforms before the instrument arrived. Frankly, I'm rather pleased that it allows me to do the process as a solo act. I won't lie. It is still a chore.

There are some recessed handles that allow me to pull the platform for the console out. The clearance on either side of the door opening is pretty tight. So care must be taken to keep wood from rubbing against wood. The floor is carpet with a light pad. And the castors are four or five inch swivel rubber wheels. The process begins with me sitting on my butt on the floor. I pull the left side an inch. Scoot over and pull the right an inch. Then back and forth until there is an opening large enough for me to squeeze through. I'd guess the distance out is on the order of 28-30 inches. I'm not sure just how much the platform and console weighs, but it weighs more than a clarinet case. Care and considerable sweat are both SOP to do this. Admittedly, profanity has sometimes been required to complete the task. I studied with some masters of that skill when I worked for Mayflower Van Lines back in college. There were some who just did your regular run-of-the-mill cussing!!! Others elevated the craft to a soaring art form of almost Wagnarian proportions. I lack their polished craftmanship, though I'm adequate in the lower level skill when the circumstances require it.

As an aside, when the organ first arrived, we discovered that the clearance around the old door frame was an eighth of an inch too small. Some enthusiastic cussing was required for that episode. I had to take the door frame off. It was run through an electric planer to get the opening right. So the gap is small. | | on each side is pretty close.

My point is to explain that right much work is involved to get to the plugs for the organ. THUS, I want to make sure I have the right cable.

While I'm behind the organ I want to tinker with some speakers in the closet. I have a small powered sub that I plan to remove. It's the wrong component for this setup. The organ has no 32 foot sounds and the regular speakers can do 32 Hertz fine. So why use a sub when one of my diagnosed problems is that the pedals are too loud. DUHHHH! I'll do some pictures and a bit of show and tell sometime. Just not now.

Be well.

Just added since this was orginally posted:

I did some more looking around on the CD that contains the DOVE install program. Ran across this:

VII. Connecting the PC to the Organ
In order to use DOVE, the back of the organ must be removed to connect the PC to it. Only AOC dealers and their authorized service personnel are authorized to remove an organ back. If any unauthorized person works inside an Allen organ, the organ's warranty is void.
A Bi-directional Lap Link cable of 6 to 10 feet in length is required, which can be purchased from a local computer store or directly from AOC (AO part # 912-3156, $20.00). Connect either end of the cable to the PC's Serial Port, and the other end to the RS232 port on the MN board in the organ.
A. Testing the Connection

DOVE includes a test routine to prove the organ and the PC are properly communicating. After the Bi-directional Lap Link cable is connected as instructed above, do the following test:

Open Dove program by double left clicking DOVE icon on the main Windows screen.
Note: Make sure the appropriate database is open as per the previous sections V. or VI prior to proceeding.
Left click “Tools” in the Dealer Organ Voicing box and a menu will appear.
Left click “Test COM Link to Organ” line in the menu.

If the connection is working, you will see a confirmation stating “Message sent and received successfully”. Then, left click on “OK” button.
If the connection is not working, you will see an error message stating “Failed to establish organ communication link with console node O”. You will need to confirm that you are 1) using Bi-directional Lap Link cable, 2) that the plugs of the cable are properly inserted, 3 and ) that the organ is turned on.

Note: If the organ is turned on after it is connected to the PC, you may see a message that states “Comm Port Error. Break detected”. If so, left click on “OK” until these messages disappear.
After confirming proper communications between the PC and the organ, you are ready to use the DOVE software to voice the organ.

BO

**myorgan** · 02-22-2020, 10:22 AM

All, should I change the name of the thread (now that it's no longer necessarily about Allen MDS or Renaissance), or should I split the thread into two separate threads?

Let me know what you think.

Michael

**Admin** · 02-22-2020, 01:14 PM

Boy, am I glad the days of RS232 serial connections are over. Whether to use the conventional cable or the null-modem version was a question that could only be answered by trial and error.ðŸ¤·â€â™€ï¸ According to Wikipedia, a LapLink cable is a parallel port version of a null modem cable, LapLink being a proprietary name of software used to connect two computers back in the days of dinosaurs. Allen apparently used LapLink in place of the generic, and universal, "null modem", so I'm guessing you're going to need a null modem serial cable, but I'd have the other on hand just in case.

The other obstacle you may encounter is a COM port number conflict. Open Device Manager and look under ports to see which are available. COM 1 is usually the serial port by you may have to configure DOVE to use a different port.

**jbird604** · 02-22-2020, 03:58 PM

If you have the end of your serial port hanging outside the closet, no need to pull the organ out. Just plug the null modem into the end of the serial cable, if it will. Obviously, if both cables have only male ends on them, that won't work. But thought I'd suggest it before you wrench your back getting it out of the closet.

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