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    Need help identifying Allen digital organ

    Hello again,
    Seems I'm posting here a lot recently. I stumbled on listings for a few free Allens and wanted to get your thoughts.

    The first is an ADC-4000. I don't know anything about it, other than it looks like it's in a church. Don't know how many speakers it has, it's capabilities, etc.

    The second one is unknown. Seller just says it's an Allen. Looks like two speakers sitting on top of the console, though there may be more.

    Looks like both have alterable card readers. I'm puzzled by what the green lights are next to the card reader on the second organ. Lights for the crescendo perhaps? That would mean the organ is only single expression. I'm guessing the knob on the right is to assign alterables. Two knobs on the left- would they be transpose, and perhaps brilliance? It's been a long time since I've seen these controls.

    One concern I have with either of these organs in a home environment is that they might sound too sterile. I've become addicted to reverb while playing electronic instruments in the home as it gives a nicer sense of space and really takes the edge off. I have plenty of electronic reverb units, but how hard would it be to add one to the organ?

    It's hard to believe these organs were once so expensive that only churches could afford them. Now they're being given away for free, and mortals like me can finally have a chance! What concerns would you have as far as repairs in the future? Risk of boards / ICs failing?

    Thanks in advance,
    Jon
    Attached Files

    #2
    The second photo is a 301 - B. It is 1st gen digital, but can sound wonderful with a Nanoverb. Adding the reverb is not a huge deal on them, if you are sorta handy. It is a very nice instrument for a home. The B console is very well built and beautiful. This one has the DM - Dual Memory system - may well need battery replacement. Yes, the green lamps are the Crescendo indicators.
    Regards, Larry

    At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

    Comment


      #3
      ADC 4000 was one of my favorite models back in the day. It has two audio channels for the great/pedal and two for the swell. Normally all four speakers are HC-15, could be HC-12. A very fine sounding organ with a lovely stop list. No 32' stop in the 4000 (when Allen upped this series to the 4100 then the 4300, they added a 32' stop along the way). But otherwise just about every classical stop one could need, plus the card reader of course. This model was built before the introduction of the famous "TG-10" board for generating that beautiful chiff and air that is so wonderful on late model ADC organs. But there is still a decent attack sound on these stops and a switchable chiff on each manual.

      The other organ pictured is a MOS 300 series. Less desirable, IMHO, as the sound is indeed quite sterile, though if it's a 305, it would be MOS2 which has some built-in motion in the ensemble ("frequency separation"). These organs only require two speaker cabinets, probably HC-12's. Could have been sold with older speaker types though, such as the big old Type 16 for the main channel and a set of two, 32A and 32B for the flute/pedal channel. Those old units are huge and clunky and don't sound as good as the HC cabinets. Yes, the MOS has only a single expression pedal. The other pedal is crescendo.

      As to parts and reliability, both of these are getting older. The MOS is from the 70s or very early 80s. The 4000 is 1984 or 85, I'd guess. Either organ could need speakers rebuilt. Either could be in for some power supply repairs. The 4000 had DM capture, so if the batteries were ever allowed to leak on the memory board, it could be damaged. But the ADC definitely has the potential to sound much better. You will just have to deal with whatever might be wrong with either one. At least the boards are all available, at some price. And these days there are a lot of spare boards being sold on ebay and very low prices compared to what Allen wants for new boards.

      Another advantage to the ADC is that you can add a couple of the reverb units you already have with no trouble. Just pull out the RCA plugs going into the four amps, run two into each stereo reverb unit, then run the outputs of the reverbs on to the amps and adjust the reverb and mix of wet/dry, etc., to your liking. It's more complicated to add reverb to a MOS organ, though it can be done.

      Either way, free is a very good price!
      John
      ----------
      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

      Comment


        #4
        You are correct in that the MOS organs have only a single expression pedal that handles all divisions. One of the main advantages of stepping up to the ADC organs is that separate expression was available . Large mutliple computer MOS organs, of course, also provided independent expression, but single computer organs could not. Two computer organs could be configured for independent expression, but usually the 2nd computer was instead used for ensemble effects, doubling, and octave shift.

        Multiple computers are identified by the model number: 100 to 599 had 1 computer, 2 computers started at 600, 3 at 900, etc.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the great info. Does anyone know how deep the ADC-4000 is? Guess it would be good to make sure it'll fit through my door!

          Comment


            #6
            That is the "B" Series console, and should be 32-3/4 inches with the pedals detached.

            Comment


              #7
              I just measured my kitchen door again, and the opening is 33 1/2", so it looks like this should actually fit! Wow, I may actually be able to work this out.

              Comment


                #8
                Let us know how it goes! I'd also like to know how many speakers came with it. It's not clear enough but it looks like it has tabs for "Antiphonal" . If so, often people don't know where al the speakers are. I found that out last fall when I picked up a 5400. They said it had 7, but did not realize there were 7 more elsewhere! Fortunately it all fit in my trailer. We just finished re-installing it in upstate NY.
                John
                Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I just contacted the fellow from the church. Looks like it doesn't come with any speakers

                  I do have some pretty sizable speakers at home, including a nice horn loaded bass cabinet, but it means I won't be able to test the organ at the church. I'm a bit worried about getting it home and finding out it's got serious problems. Kinda torn on this one.

                  EDIT: Just to be clear, what exactly would I need to be able to play this at home? Sounds like a minimum of four full range speakers?

                  Comment


                  • myorgan
                    myorgan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's correct. It seems quite odd none of the speakers are available. I wonder where they went? The organ is useless without them. Substitutes will provide sounds, but we can't vouch for the quality. Allen's speakers are designed specifically for those frequencies covered by the organ, and for extended periods of sound.

                    Michael

                  #10
                  Ask the church if the organ currently plays and let them know that it requires speakers--and if they are not included, why not? It is OK to be pushy if you are the potential buyer.

                  Comment


                    #11
                    In this case the organ is free, so I guess at that point it's anything goes. I asked the fellow to give me a call when he can. Hopefully I'll get some answers then.

                    As far as what speakers I have, here goes:
                    1. A pair of JBL 8330 theater surround speakers. Former rear surround speakers from a theater. Excellent sound quality and output, but they're limited to about 70-80 Hz.
                    2. Pair of KLH model 6 speakers. Nice full range, but inefficient.
                    3. Pair of Genesis speakers. Similar to the KLH.
                    4. Acoustic 301 folded horn. Definitely plenty of bottom end, but again not super deep. Could be a good compliment with the JBLs as far as high output goes.
                    5. Traynor folded horn. Similar to the Acoustic, though a bit smaller, so more restricted in the LF extension area.
                    6. Bose 800 PA speakers. Similar to the original 901, but with 8 drivers firing out the front, instead of bouncing off the back.

                    Also have plenty of outboard gear- mixers, effects, electronic crossovers, amps, etc. I know I could cobble something together, but it might end up being bulky / complicated.

                    Nothing that I would say is ideal. Probably the JBLs and the 301 are the best bet, but that only covers two out of the 4 channels, and the 301 is huge. I also have a set of Bozak B4000s, but they're hooked up to my 2 channel system and are also rather large. I'd prefer to leave them where they are if possible.
                    Last edited by Vercus; 02-27-2020, 11:56 AM.

                    Comment


                    • myorgan
                      myorgan commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Vercus,

                      Surely, being in PA you could find some Allen HC-12 or HC-14 or 15 speakers. If not, even Rodgers or Johannus speakers would be better than the average off-the-shelf mish mash speakers you listed.

                      The folded horn speakers I would think would be good for Pedal channels, but you're still left with covering the manual channels (probably the Swell). Great and Pedal are probably combined in that organ.

                      Michael

                    #12
                    I agree that for an Allen you can't beat Allen speakers. I am curious; are the amps internal or external? 2 years ago we found an ADC 6000 and all the amps were external in a rack. Better check to see what's in the console. If you need HC12 or HC15, PM me. I was told that it's best to have one HC12 on the Great Pedal Channel, and 3 HC15 on the remaining.
                    John
                    Can't play an note but love all things "organ" Responsible for 2/10 Wurli pipe organ, Allen 3160(wife's), Allen LL324, Allen GW319EX, ADC4600, many others. E-organ shop to fund free organ lessons for kids.

                    Comment


                    • jbird604
                      jbird604 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Correction: The 4000 does NOT use an HC-12 on one of the pedal channels because there is no 32' pedal stop. Much better to use the same speaker model on all four channels for ease of balancing and voicing.

                      All four amps are in the console. The one I use to have had four S-100 amps in the console, others came with two S-100 amps and a dual-channel D-40. Very late ones had a quad ADC amp.

                    • myorgan
                      myorgan commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Thank you, John. I had forgotten–especially after I played the ADC-4000 at your former church!

                      Michael

                    • jbird604
                      jbird604 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes you did! That was a great day.

                    #13
                    ADC-4000 amps are usually in the console. Mine has a pair of S-100's for the GT/PD and a D-40 for the 2 Swell channels.

                    Comment


                      #14
                      So both of those organs are free, right ? The 301 obviously has speakers sitting on it. They look like HC15 Allen speakers. Probably only two with that organ though. If they are close enough and you have room, grab up both and then you have speakers to test both.
                      Regards, Larry

                      At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 !!! ), E-5AR, FX-1 ( X 2 !! ), FX-20, EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen 601D, ADC 6000D. Baldwin 626. Lowrey CH32-1. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with Vista ), Allen L123 ( with Navigator ). Rodgers 755.

                      Comment


                        #15
                        Though the 4000 is indeed a wonderful organ, one of the sweet spots of the ADC line, I'm concerned that this one might not be a great choice, Jon. The fact that the speakers have disappeared and you can't easily test it where it is is worrying. Has it been seriously neglected for a long time? Without being able to test it, you don't know for sure that it doesn't need a cage board or two or three. You don't know the condition of the amps, the power supplies, the key contacts.

                        OTOH, the old MOS is older and the sound is far more sterile (all stops using the same pitch table, versus four pitch tables in the 4000), BUT the MOS only needs two speakers and they are already included with it, so you can easily check it out. And the MOS is simpler, with no particularly vulnerable boards inside. Boards for MOS organs are regularly sold on ebay pretty cheap.

                        It is only slightly harder to add reverb to a MOS -- you need a pair of "isolator" couplings from Harrison Labs to isolate the low-impedance outputs of your reverb unit from the high-impedance expression circuit in the amps. So that might be ok.

                        Also, this being a 300 series MOS organ, it will have the analog celeste rank in addition to the MOS tone generation system, and there are some lovely sounds possible with that rank, though it does require tuning and some futzing to make it match the digital tones against which it is played. But at least it's not a really plain and dry MOS model.

                        Just a thought on this brisk winter morning! Good luck!
                        John
                        ----------
                        *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                        https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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