Rodgers Inspire series vs. Allen Historique series

[Dewey643]

For those of you who have played BOTH of these series of organs by both builders,what are your thoughts on them as far as quality of sound,quality of build,and reliability? I'm asking just for information only,...no plans of buying anything.

[ahlborn]

Yes, I have compared Rodgers Inspire 227 with Allen Historique II.
Rodgers is clearly superior.
It is immensely superior in digital technology, in amplifiers, in speakers. The keyboards are superior in Rodgers, which use professional Fatar TP60 keyboards. Allen uses cheap standard Fatar TP8/L keyboards.
The pedalboard is clearly superior in Rodgers, which uses conventional measures. The Allen pedalboard have short chromatic pedals, short and narrow natural pedals, and the overall sizes are visibly outside the AGO standard. I wonder if their designer has organ skills.

The cabinet is more solid and finished better in Rodgers.

[Dewey643]

Although I have not played either organ,I can tell you that just by appearance alone,...in my opinion,anyway,...the Fatar keyboards used on the Historique do indeed look cheap. It has the smaller Princess pedalboard compared to the standard AGO on the Rodgers 227. As for build quality,I have been told the Inspire series consoles from Rodgers are a bit flimsy compared to the Historique.

[ahlborn]

Today Allen is struggling through gritted teeth to live on yesterday's myth. There are several organ brands that build very solid organs, in some cases even superior to Allen.
I have compared the two organs and Rodgers is finished better and also more robust.
In Allen I also saw several parts that are not solid wood (I had the opportunity to open the rear panel to look inside). There is nothing wrong with using wood substitutes, but it is fun that they criticize other companies for using it.
Evidently they are more busy in criticizing other brands rather than better designing their instruments.
Some time ago on this forum I had read (I don't remember exactly who wrote it) that yesterday in Allen there were organ builders, while today in Allen there are only businessmen.
I agree.

[jbird604]

Resurrecting this thread instead of starting a new one, as there is a connection...

Yesterday we finished installing a new Rodgers Inspire 343 (top of the Inspire line 3 manual with tabs) in a church on behalf of the Rodgers dealer in Tulsa. I was pretty impressed, though most of the caveats associated with other entry-level digitals would apply. Namely, that the individual stops are amazingly realistic, lovely almost as the individual stops on my VPO. But the ensemble, as in most digitals, is less clear than in more expensive digitals, even with a full 6.2 channel external audio setup, as this organ was equipped with.

I suppose there really isn't any way to FULLY free the digital organ from this audio jamming, unless one were to build a digital organ with a discrete audio channel for every note of every rank. And that of course would be more complex and more expensive than an equivalent pipe organ! More practical audio arrangements, such as M&O seems to have used for their larger organs, might have at least one channel, or perhaps a stereo pair, for each stop. That costs a lot of money too, but can actually be done when the money is available.

Both Allen and Rodgers have pretty much settled on a standard audio arrangement -- Rodgers having a "stereo pair" for each organ division plus a pair of subs; Allen having, at least above the lowest range, a couple of channels for each division, with stops often arranged in a quasi-C-C#-split, with a sub crossing over from the pedal channels with the 32' stop. And of course either company can and will build you a much more sophisticated custom organ with many more channels than this, for the right money.

Since this thread began with comparing the Allen Historique with the Rodgers Inspire, in both those series we're talking about a basic two-channel self-contained audio, which one would suspect to be even more subject to the jamming effect than the expanded audio from either builder on larger setups or models. On the Inspire 343 we installed yesterday, I was fairly pleased with the sound of the internal speakers when played alone, at least when sitting right on the bench.

The Inspire's internal amps and speakers seem to have plenty of heft for a small room or home setup. (The organ we installed went into a very large church, and actually had DOUBLED 6.2 audio -- 16 speaker cabinets in two chambers, and in such a place the internal audio has no function at all, other than to provide the organist a sort of "monitor" speaker in case he/she is ever forced to play background music for the band and can't hear the main organ sound.)

My gut feeling when hearing and playing this Inspire was that it would be a very satisfying organ to own. The individual stops are beautiful, with all the articulation and nuance you'd expect. And there are four or five "voice palette" stops behind each tab, as well as the option to change all the stops at once to one of several alternative "suites" (to use the Allen terminology), such as French or German or Romantic, etc. I don't recall just what these alternate voicings are called, but it was the typical options.

The Inspire 343 is a very well-appointed console, with every high-end playing feature you could ask for. Divided expression, crescendo, toe studs, a very elaborate capture action (10 generals + 5 divisionals each, with 50 memory levels), a built-in Demo library with a great selection of classical pieces, plus a Hymn Player with hundreds of hymn tunes, complete with introductions, and a neat system for having some control over the tempo, pauses between verses, etc.

Keyboards have a better than average feel. A sort of simulated ivory surface and a very subtle "tracker touch" that is just right. Not so stiff and abrupt as to startle the player who isn't used to a tracker, but with enough of that top-resistant feel to make your playing more crisp and accurate. I liked the feel very much. Pedals are totally different from the Hillsboro-built units we are used to seeing on Rodgers organs, but they felt good to me. They have no exposed magnets or switches, all of that being enclosed within the pedal assembly, connecting to the console with a plug-in cable. The pedal assembly just slides securely into the nook of the console built for it.

Anyway, that's my brief assessment. If I were in the market for a new home organ, I'd certainly consider both the Historique series (in particular the largest one, with AGO pedals) and the Inspire organs. I'm sure that each has its particular charms. Other alternatives in a similar range would be the Opus models from Johannus and whatever Viscount offers.

[Larason2]

Interesting topic. I don't have first hand experience, but I don't think it is a fair comparison. I'm sure Allen could put the same keyboards in a Historique, and if you presented the Allen dealer with a Rodgers quote for a similar spec. They would cut you a deal. I think it's like cars, a car that's a few thousand more than a similar car from a different dealer, once you analyze and drill down the bare details, is basically the same price if you have the same basic options, and then either will cut you a deal to get your business. Like cars, the most important difference is a different philosophy. If you like dry sampling, Allen, if you like wet sampling, Rodgers. Most car dealers include lots of minute differences compared to the competition so it makes it hard to truly compare for this precise reason.

Personally I wouldn't buy a new organ with Fatar keyboards. It's like carpet in the home, it's going to have to be replaced eventually. Why not spring for hardwood if you can? It's more expensive initially, but if you look at it as cost per year, you're actually saving money long term. And like beds, I believe it's worth spending a bit more money if you're going to touch it every day. Allen has their good quality home built keyboards, but what does Rodgers have? UHT are too expensive, and Shwindler is nice, but it's a whole different kind of keyboard entirely with the magnetic contacts. So I think those are the most substantive differences.

I've yet to see a budget organ that doesn't have at least some plywood or particle board. I'm sure the inspire series does too. But as long as it holds up the keyboards, I'm ok with that.

[jbird604]

Yes, both Allen and Rodgers have to shave costs at this price point, and it shows in both cases. Keyboards and other hardware obviously have to be economical, as the Allen home-built keyboards and the exotic options from Rodgers are pretty pricey. Fatar is the usual source for keys on entry-level models, but Fatar keys come in a range of qualities. I can't say for sure if the Inspire we saw had Fatar keys, as the keyboard assemblies were completely enclosed at the rear, but if they are Fatar keys, they are rather different from the Fatar keys in other organs I've played.

It was just an impression, from a brief bit of playing, but I did think the keyboards on this Inspire were exceptionally nice for the price. The old organ being removed from the church was sitting right there for comparison, an Allegiant model only 14 years old (lightning damaged and thus unrepairable). I tried out the keys on the Allegiant briefly for comparison, and the Inspire keys were much more satisfying. The Allegiant keys were plain bright white shiny slick plastic and had the typical plastic springy feel. The faux ivory keys of the Inspire and the subtle tracker touch made it a lot more fun to play.

Anyway, there are, as you say, a lot more fundamental differences between Allen and Rodgers than the keys. As I said above, IF I were in the market for a new organ, I'd certainly consider both in this price range, along with the offerings from Johannus and Viscount. I'd begin by seriously LISTENING to the available models!

[ahlborn]

I have seen both models disassembled. Inspire uses professional TP60/LF "Ivory feel" keyboards. Historique uses inexpensive TP8/L keyboards.

Inspire's sound generation is very advanced compared to Historique (but the version I tried was Renaissance/Genesys technology, not Apex).

Furniture is better in Inspire.

[SchnarrHorn]

Assuming the Allen website is correct, the Historique I (H I) has only the Fatar keyboards available. The H II and H III provide a choice - Fatar or the the Allen-made keyboards. For the H I, II and III, the pedal board options are either the princess style or a regular concave parallel style. The AGO (concave radiating) style is not available for the H line.

George

[SchnarrHorn]

Correcting my previous post on January 14th. The Allen website doesn't clearly show this, but the H II and H III, while not having an AGO (concave radiating) pedal board option in addition to a choice of princess style and concave parallel, they DO both have an "AGO console option" which does include the AGO spec pedal board. I'm guessing the console dimensions are different to accommodate the AGO pedal board and/or to accommodate the other AGO specs for the console (keyboard location in relation to the pedal board, etc.).

George

[dfitz]

George,

I own an H III G with the AGO console option and the console is slightly wider to accommodate the AGO pedalboard.

Doug