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  • Allen Protege C6 hack question

    Hi all,
    The "hack" in the topic title refers to my desire to blend a C6's native sounds with a Hauptwerk installation, not to my own status in so doing, although both may be true!

    The short story is that I'd like to disable some, but not all, of the C6's stops, and continue to use the remainder through the C6 console's audio system, while tapping into its MIDI outputs for Hauptwerk.

    I have done several HW installations, some combining real pipe ranks plus HW, but know next to nothing about Allens, and have not been able to find anything like a technical manual.

    Any advice, resources, words of encouragement or of warning welcome!

  • #2
    If the C6 has a Console Controller (I can't remember if it does), just go into voicing and using the chart that should be with the organ you can turn down the volume of the stop. Your Voicing might be disabled, I can tell you how to enable it. Volume of the stop might be minus zero or plus, but you can tell which when you get to it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Follow-up to my earlier post. I checked my Protégé C19c organ's Console Controller. Zero volume is indeed wide open, but the lowest is -35 and the stop is still audible though very quiet. I suppose the DOVE software could turn a stop (called Rank in the CC) off. I do think you can use the MIDI message that a stop tab sends to turn on a stop in HW. And if the HW stop is same family as the very quiet stop of the C6 you might not notice. Of course you could unplug the amps and rely on HW only!

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      • #4
        Thanks so much! I'm about to use it for Lenten Vespers (me and the Pastor, broadcasting online), using Hauptwerk only, by simply not turning on any C6 stops. But as you suggest, I'd like to use the stop tabs for HW, which do work.
        If I may ask further since you seem to be knowledgeable, how does one access voicing and/or the console controller? There are a couple 9-pin ports available internally, and of course I'm hooked up to its MIDI functionality.

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        • #5
          The C-6 does NOT have a Console Controller. The C6c does have the Console Controller. DOVE would be required with the C-6. In my opinion, that is a nice model. I would have liked one of them.

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          • #6
            OK - so excuse my ignorance, but all I know about DOVE is that it's a proprietary Allen package. If I were lucky enough to get it running on a computer, how does one hook it up to the organ itself? Thanks all!

            Comment


            • myorgan
              myorgan commented
              Editing a comment
              PMartens,

              Good luck! I've never seen or used DOVE, but from what I've heard, it only runs on older Windows operating systems, and is not user-friendly. Member, John (jbird604) has used DOVE to completely re-voice his Renaissance organ for his home before he sold it. You can search for some of his posts where he describes the process he went through–and he's a (pre-DOVE) Allen tech!

              Michael

            • you795a
              you795a commented
              Editing a comment
              I agree with you, myorgan...Good Luck. DOVE works on Windows 98, I am not sure about XP. And like myorgan said, it is not user friendly. I know there are some quirks with using DOVE on a CEN series organ like a C-6. It also requires a 9 pin cable to connect the computer to the organ.

          • #7
            If you would happen to obtain a copy of DOVE, just remember that there is a chance that you can really mess the organ up. i saw that done at the factory by some people that actually did voicing of the organs. We actually had to reprogram the CEN board to get the organ back to factory specs.

            Comment


            • #8
              Yep. There is a good reason why Allen keeps DOVE out of the hands of end users. I've been an Allen tech for nearly 30 years and have voiced hundreds of organs, some with hardware controls, others using software from Rodgers, Johannus, and of course Allen's DOVE. DOVE is the least user friendly, though it is also the most powerful, in terms of the drastic alterations one can make to the sound of the organ. In the hands of someone untrained it can destroy an organ! I've had some near misses myself.

              So if you have the Console Controller, use it to turn the volume down to the lower limit on stops you desire to replace with HW. Barring that, you may have to resort to using HW on a touch screen.
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

              Comment


              • #9
                Thanks John - My C6 does not have a Console Controller, sadly. Just so I don't leave anything unasked, is there a physical way to disable certain stops, e.g. by disconnecting/snipping the correct wires?

                At the end of the days, I will not be terribly sad to just unplug the amp, as per OrganKeys Jones above.

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                • #10
                  There is no physical way to disable any stops. The stopboard is in a loop that jumps from one circuit board to the next (daisychain) and if you break the loop some part of the organ will not function also you may get an error light on the CEN1 board. If you snip any wires the organ will not function and could easily be damaged.

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                  • #11
                    Thanks to all of you for responding, and with such thoroughness! I can now chart a path forward.
                    Peter

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                    • #12
                      While I can vouch for the complexity and danger of using DOVE to adjust the organ's voicing, I would not discourage you from using it if you are computer-savvy and careful when you use it. Allen sells it to end users like me, either directly from the factory, or through your local dealer. I run my copy on Windows 10, so you do not have to have an ancient computer to run DOVE. The factory supplied me with a Windows 10-compatible version of DOVE despite the fact that my R-350 is over 20 years old.

                      I suggest you buy a copy and voice your C-6 to sound its best, then add Hauptwerk voices on top of the Allen voices, both at the same time. Then you get the best of both worlds!

                      Comment


                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I HATE SAS!!! It's a way to keep us indebted to them forever! Maybe we need to boycott both companies!

                        Michael

                      • Admin
                        Admin commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Microsoft updated owners of Windows 7 & 8 to Windows 10 for free for the first year of its release in 2015. Since then they've provided bi-annual feature updates. These are also free, so I'm not sure how they're keeping me indebted.

                      • myorgan
                        myorgan commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm just referring to Internet-based software (i.e. Office 365) vs. enterprise software where you just purchased the license and it was good forever. Now, it's subscription-based. At least it was the last I knew.

                        Michael

                    • #13
                      Just to follow up a final time here - we determined that none of the on-board Protege sounds were worth the trouble involved in trying to acquire and use DOVE.

                      We instead disconnected the Protege's sound generator from its onboard amp/speakers, and repurposed that system as one of the sound outputs for Hauptwerk; we'll probably use it as the Aux mix-down for all of the divisions, essentially using the cabinet sound system as a monitor for the entire organ, which is helpful given the distance from the console of some of the speaker sets. Thanks again!

                      Comment


                      • jbird604
                        jbird604 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Sounds like a good solution. It's probably much easier to create a cohesive instrument using a VPO setup than to mix and match sounds from a computer and a hardware organ. And yes, it's a big step to get DOVE up and running and figure out how to use it, especially if you aren't going to use all the stops. Smart decision.
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