Allen Key Swap?

[Hiawatha]

I've been thinking that since I intend to throw out the old TC-3 to replace it in my summer cabin with the 120-C perhaps I could swap the keysticks of the TC-3 with those of the 120-C. As I recall my TC-3 has "real" feeling keys similar to those on real organs whereas the 120-C has really plastic-y keys that feel like I'm playing a 1980's MIDI keyboard. Side note: the TC-3 in it's time must have been nice, the principal was really glorious and the cabinet is really perfect.

[toodles]

I think the basic key operation of the two organs is the same. Up until they offered Fatar keyboards (which happened in this century), the basic operation of Allen keyboards has not changed. The key consists of a wooden keystick which is used for the pivot and a plastic keycap attached to the wooden stick. The fulcrum is a slot in the wooden piece, which is felted. I suspect very early keyboards were solid wooden core keys, but I think Allen gave those up quite early in the company's history.

The plastic key piece evolved some. Some had an open bottom, and later, they added a closed bottom.

What is mostly different between the TC-3 and the 120C is that the TC-3 pushes a bell crank which operates a multiple contact slider and the 120-C operates a flat blade contact. That will provide some different to the feel between the two, and may be the difference you feel. You might change keyboards (without changing the keyswitching system) and find there is no difference for a lot of work.

You could test this out on the TC-3 by lifting the key switch contact on one note (by hand, propping it up) and then pressing the key to see if that is the difference you feel.

[you795a]

The shiny keys did have the bottom open. Plastic inserts were available as an option. In the 1990's when the satin finish keys came out, the bottom was closed on them. That became standard at that time.

[myorgan]

I've been thinking that since I intend to throw out the old TC-3. . . .

Hiawatha,

You may consider offering either the complete TC-3 for free to a student as a practice instrument. Alternately, you could make the parts available. Presently, I know of two Forum members who either have, or have restored TC-3 and TC-4 instruments. Surely, there are parts that are compatible between the two.

Michael

[toodles]

Note also, that the key cheeks and cheek blocks are integral to the keyboard assembly. The 120C would use check blocks and the TC-3 would have key cheeks, and it might require quite a bit of woodworking to interchange the 2 types of keyboards.

[Hiawatha]

I guess the advantage I saw was that the keys on the TC-3 (again, it's 200 miles away and I only see it three months a year) have a sort of fake ivory or whatnot, maybe a wood painted over with some (?) thing that feels just like the pipe organ keys I play. I find the plastic that covers the keys of the 120-C contemptible and, strangely, noisy. I'll keep the TC-3 for parts. I have owned 4 Allens and swap parts out occasionally when possible. I tried many years to "midi-fy" the TC-3 and because I have absolutely no mechanical ability, I messed it up beyond recognition (not the electronics-- that's where I shine-- but in the basic carpentry.)

[jbird604]

I don't remember offhand just how the stacks of multiple contacts are attached to the rear of each manual assembly, but it's possible that they are relatively easy to remove. I do know that the MOS contact assembly can be quite easily removed from the manual. You MIGHT be able to transplant the MOS contact assembly to the rear of the analog keys. Or maybe not, if there is a radical difference in the way the two are mounted.

If they are physically compatible, the good news is that the contact assemblies are self-contained and thus will work perfectly with the analog's keyboards as long as you adjust the contact lifters correctly.

You would have to make some modifications to the console itself, as the way the manuals are mounted on these two greatly different consoles will be vastly different.

That old analog may well have the truly elegant old keys with wood all the way out to the ends, covered in an ivory-like material. I don't blame you for liking the way they feel better than the slick plastic of the MOS keys.

[Hiawatha]

I was just thinking of pulling out the key*sticks* not *stacks* since I would assume they are the same.... but I'll have to check when I drive back there.

[jbird604]

It shouldn't hurt anything to try it. Just be extremely careful when you do it. There is a tiny brass-colored spring that is attached underneath each key at the back end, and it must be unhooked from a rail before you can pull the key up and out. If the keys happen to have identical length and if the guide pin holes are drilled exactly the same (as they should be), the keys will drop right in and work.

[toodles]

I suggest that if the TC-3 uses a key cap, just replace those and not the entire stick. They are held on with a small screw at the back of the key cap. After removing that, lift off the cap. Much easier than replacing the entire key stick.

[myorgan]

Amen to that, Toodles! After replacing a few on one of my organs, I can definitely say it's easier to replace the key caps rather than the entire stick.

The only time I would replace a stick is if it warped due to moisture or something like that.

Michael

[you795a]

Also, if the key sounds loose on the wooden key stick, take a piece of 1/4 inch masking tape and tape it over the top and front edge of the wooden keystick. It will make the plastic cap a little tighter on the wooden keystick.