Rodgers 205- worth it?

[michaelhoddy]

Yesterday, as part of an uninstall we did for a church that is moving buildings and for whom my company is doing a new audio system, we removed and transported a Rodgers 205 hybrid organ to our storage. This is a "baroque" organ from 1980 that has two 49-note 4' ranks of pipes with it, a principal and a stopped flute, as well as typical Rodgers analog electronics filling in the very top and very bottom of the pipe stops, and other sounds such as strings and reeds. The speakers, console, and pipe chests are all built together as three separate units that bolt together, left pipe/speaker tower, center console/main wind chest, and right pipe/speaker tower. The blower is in the center section. The pipes sound nice enough, at least the ones that work- typical unnicked low pressure work. Rodgers ballyhoos their "Aeolian Skinner" heritage in the brochure, but that's stretching it more than a bit:

Here's the brochure:

http://www.rodgersinstruments.com/up...dfs/200205.pdf

This one is in mediocre shape. Lots of dead notes in the pipe ranks, and the thunderous sound of many failed capacitors in the speakers when you fire up the electronics.

But boy is it tempting! Just a really cool looking little organ. I'm sure I could get it for next to nothing, if not just the effort of us removing it, and could gut the electronics for a neat VPO with a couple ranks of pipes on top. Am I crazy?

[Hiawatha]

I once subbed a Reformation Day service at a mega Lutheran Church on one of these. I was turned off at first, but I actually thought it was pretty ok. I had never played on a "hybrid" organ before so I drove down to practice the night before (Halloween).All night long costumed children from the youth center of the church came down to sneak a peak at the new organist practicing in the dark. I, of course, indulged them with frequent strains of "Toccata and Fugue in d minor" and they'd run away giggling and screaming. By all accounts my playing was a disaster (my favorite moment was when the only copy of the bulletin I had slipped under the pedal board and in a moment of white knuckle terror I had to swipe one out of the hands of one of the congregants sitting next to the organ bench (it was an odd set up). I was so flustered that between services one of the choir members came up to me and said, "It is a shame that you weren't able to drive down to become familiar and practice on the instrument."

[Organkeys Jones]

Don't you just love the "encouraging" words from some Christians?

[ChristopherDB113]

While not fun for you at the time, it makes for a great story now. Thanks for sharing.

[Hiawatha]

Did I forget to mention that my old organ professor, a guy I really, really looked up to, a guy who put my name in for the job because I was "underemployed" by a cheap college thought it would be a good idea to send four or five of his current organ students from a prestigious school up to the church to listen to me play the service? When I say this was a disaster, I mean a total disaster. After the last service the students came and introduced themselves and explained that "Dr. So and So" had sent them up to hear me. You can't make this stuff up.

[toodles]

I played one of these at the Rodgers dealer in Chicago area, and, of course, everything worked perfectly. Many years later I played the model 200 version (the one without the side wing cabinets) at a dealer as a used instrument, and it was out of tune, sun bleached, and sounded wretched--nothing was in tune. But when working and in tune, they sound great.

Always loved the design of the 205, though, and I like the "in your face" sound of the pipes. Action is direct electric.

The electronics, of course, are all repairable, and if the price is right, I'd say go for it. You could replace the analog voices with VPO and keep the pipes for those stops that draw on them.

[myorgan]

What an opportunity, Michael. For me it's the uniqueness of this particular setup that would grab my attention. From what I know of you, you have the expertise to fix whatever is wrong and complete any necessary repairs. Failing that task, I would think a VPO with some "real pipework" attached would also be unique. I've never heard of a VPO playing with some "real pipes" before. My only concern would be the tuning.

Michael

[toodles]

Rodgers provided a tuning control for the electronics which allowed you to adjust the electronics to the pipe's tuning. Same thing could be done with a VPO. Conn originated the idea of pipes plus electronics with Tellers Kent providing the pipe supplement, but didn't have a tuning adjustment (that I know of); Rodgers fixed the problem by providing the adjustment.

[michaelhoddy]

I'm no VPO expert, but a general tuning control is part of every software sampler and synth. I know the more advanced VPOs allow for much more detailed tuning adjustments.

Random story: When I was with Ahlborn-Galanti, they had a feature called "auto pipe tracking" for hybrid organs that involved a little temperature sensor that you located up with the pipes and it hooked up to a jack on the Ahlborn Galanti organ or Archive module you were integrating. We did a few of them, but I never really experienced it in action to see how well it worked.

[myorgan]

Michael,

I remember that auto adjust, now that you mention it. I wonder how well it worked? IIRC there are people on the Forum who could provide that information.

Michael

[SchnarrHorn]

Seem to recall reading recently about a Walker augmented pipe organ that used the temp sensor approach to keep the electronics in tune with the pipes. If Walker is using it, it is probably working well. Is that what Allen does too? Allen frequently has hybrid organs as the 'organ of the week', so they must have the tuning issue solved.

George

[Larrytow]

I would grab it up for that sort of price. Its a great looking instrument, so there is certainly that "coolness" factor. It really would be an unusual setup with it playing a virtual organ along with the pipes. I don't think I ever heard of anyone else doing that either. That one likely does not have MIDI capabilities, so there is that work / cost to consider though. If it were here, I would be hauling it home, even though I don't really have any room for it. If you do...

[IHMHauptwerk]

Actually, our local Rodgers dealer as well as the one in Los Angeles, have done just that - replaced the analog voices with digital samples (Rodgers and Hauptwerk), as has a medium size VPO conversion outfit out of Minnesota. I have no financial interest in any of the dealers, but can speak from experience that, even with the analog voices and pipes regulated together, it's a nice sounding instrument. Played one for five years in a previous assignment - very sweet sounding pipework, especially if the space is a bit reverberant.

[Philip Powell]

I would buy it just because it looks super, duper awesome!!! (Also, I could play it;-))

[Moller Artiste]

Michael, you are NOT crazy! It will be worth the effort. Allen

[michaelhoddy]

Hi all,

Bumping this back up. We have the 205 in storage now. It's tantalizing and in good physical shape, but it's definitely in need of some significant work, or a gut and rebuild as a VPO.

Issues:

1. The electronic tone generation side of the organ is a basket case. Some parts of it work, some don't. Every capacitor in the whole thing probably needs replaced.

2. Most all of the pipes work. A few don't- either a valve magnet issue or a pipe driver issue.

3. The tin 4' pipes on the side towers are in rougher shape than they appear- especially the hangers on the back tops of the pipes and the tuners. But they all work.

As I've thought through it, all in all, more work than I have time to get involved with, and more potential unknowns than I feel comfortable selling to someone else.

So all that to say, at this point, I'll give this thing away to anyone who will pledge to make something nice out of it. Doesn't need to be a restoration, just not throwing it in the dumpster. If you'd be interested in that, let me know via private message. The whole thing is in storage in North Plainfield, NJ in ground-level climate controlled storage.

[musikfan]

IMHO, the sheer joy of just having another organ in the house should tempt any organ lover to seriously consider this instrument. I know that if I had the room, I'd seriously consider taking it off someone's hands, even if it had to sit for a while until I could afford to have it repaired. Looks like an amazing project that would be really cool when it's complete. The VPO is definitely a good option, but I think I'm still "old school" and love the real thing. That being said, I'm still holding out for the Allen in the church across the street. But there's ALWAYS room for another organ, isn't there......??? LOL...

[SchnarrHorn]

I can understand a capacitor or two giving up the ghost in 40 years but most of them? What could have caused it? Electrical surge? Substandard components? Very unfortunate.

George

[toodles]

It is probably only the electrolytic capacitors that have issues--though there are a lot of those in such an instrument.

[John Vanderlee]

Last year we installed one of those in a senior care center chapel , before Covid! They had a dying Hammond in there.They absolutely loved it!
For obvious reasons haven't been back since. But I did think the pipes were a bit too loud relative to the electronics. I think it's great if not for looks alone. It came out of a Temple, we bought it for $500.

[Larason2]

I have recently read that most electrolytic capacitors are only designed to last ~10 years at most. One reason is that the liquid inside has to be open to the atmosphere, since in operation they produce a tiny amount of hydrogen gas that has to escape (otherwise they will explode!). Since the caps are open to the environment, the liquid evaporates over time, with the time it takes to evaporate lengthened the colder the capacitor is. My understanding is also that capacitor life is also lengthened the more use the capacitor gets, since a circuit that biases the capacitor will prevent the electrolyte from dissolving the capacitor plate. So an organ with 40 year old electrolytic capacitors can expect them all to need replacing, unless it was always on and/or stored at cold temperatures. At least that is my understanding, I'm sure other forum members can correct me or fill in any gaps?

[myorgan]

Yes, Indianajo. Good to have you back!;-) (older members will know what I mean)

Michael

[jbird604]

I still wish we knew what happened to Indiana Joe. He totally dropped out of sight nearly 5 years ago. He and I had nearly identical shoulder surgeries about the same time, and I think he had a more difficult recovery than I did. I tried for a while to figure out his real name by googling for organ techs in Indiana but never found him.

[SchnarrHorn]

I had to search for that one. No, can't fill those shoes!! I started out in college as an electrical engineering major, but quickly got bored with the math and switched. But some of the basics have stuck. :-)