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Allen 225-RTC Repair

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Larason2 View Post
    The other issue I have discovered is that Channel 2 is quite a bit quieter than channel 1. I tried voicing them with the volume pots on the amplifier, but I found that even with channel 2 at max volume, it still can’t match channel 1 (and channel 1 has volume to spare). Looking at the DAC board, it looks as though there are two pots on there that roughly correspond to channel 1 and 2. Should I try adjusting these, or should I look elsewhere for the source of the problem?

    Try simply turning up the quiet amplifier to have it match the other.

    Originally posted by Larason2 View Post
    I ordered the LED kit from Harrison labs, I will wire it up and let you guys know how it turned out.
    Just be aware that some have had mixed results with the LEDs in the card reader. At least one person on the Forum had to drill out the holes so the LEDs would fit. YMMV.

    Good to hear at least some of your issues have been resolved.

    Also, regarding the card reader, you may want to check for a blown fuse or the voltage in the card reader power supply (pictured in this post): https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...993#post417993

    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos


    • John Vanderlee
      John Vanderlee commented
      Editing a comment
      The kit clearly states that you have to drill out the holes to fit the LEDS. They specify a certain fractional drill bit, but I found that a bit size very close to that works fine.

    • Larason2
      Larason2 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks John, that’s very helpful! Luckily I’m no stranger to drilling and have a good drill. Looking forward to being able to use those tone cards!

  • #17
    The capture power supply is not a 12 volt supply. It is a very complex supply with several discrete gated outputs. You may be looking at the unregulated 12 volt supply in the floor of the organ, which is not the capture supply. The capture supply is a large black assembly with about 10 or 12 spade lug connections on the front with various terminals labeled with the letter "N" and some numbers, and (I think) the letter "S" and some numbers, as well as other outputs. This unit has a circuit breaker on the front panel that looks like a toggle switch, like an old-fashioned light switch on the wall. It should be "UP" in the "on" position. If your action doesn't work at all with the plugs pulled off the DM-3 board, the capture supply is either turned off or unplugged or else it has failed, which will require replacement with an identical Allen unit.
    *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!



  • #18
    Thanks everyone for your input!

    Ah, it seems I had the wrong power supply in mind! I'm not at the organ now, but from the pictures I took previously, it looks like the switch is in the "On" position. Next time I'm there, I will try switching it off and back on again, in case that helps. I just read the sticky post about Allen capture supplies, and I don't think I'll be able to afford a new one from Allen. On the Daffer website they have a replacement, however they don't have a replacement capture board. Is there a way to ensure there is no fault on the capture board causing the power supply to fail? I would consider ordering the replacement supply if I could be sure that the fault isn't due to a part I can't afford to replace. If there's no way to know, then I will have to live without a capture system I guess. I'll go through the troubleshooting steps on the sticky post, in case it is as easy as buying a new switching power supply or fuse and get back to you guys.

    Thanks Michael for your tips about the channel voicing and the card reader. I'm just surprised that I have to max out the amp on one channel, and that maxed out isn't very loud, whereas the other one has gain to spare. After spending all that time re-foaming, I want to be sure the speakers last as long as possible! I will try switching channels to make sure that it isn't the amp, and if I'm convinced the amp is ok, then maybe I will try adjusting the ? pots on the DAC board and see if that makes any difference. It may be a problem with one of the connections on the board that brings the organ output to line level as well, so I will spend some time Deoxing and testing that. Thanks for the heads up about the LED's! I would certainly be able to drill larger holes, but I hope I don't have to do that! I will check the fuse and the voltage of the power supply, as you suggest.

    Thanks again everyone. Cheers!


    • #19
      As far as the volume levels, you can try to adjust the pots on the circuit board that you have a photo of in the same posting where you have a photo of the amp. I am not sure what those pots do but I would imagine they are for volume level.


      • #20
        Thanks again everyone for all your help. I'm glad to report that I managed to sort out both problems!

        For the power supply, it turns out that it was indeed off, turning it on and connecting the batteries, everything worked perfectly! I'm very pleased at this, as I wasn't sure I was going to be able to afford the replacement.

        As for the volume differences, I found that some of the RCA connections for the offending channel were oxidized, so applying some deoxit and adjusting the volumes seemed to have done the difference. You were right You795a, that the pots on the circuit board bringing the organ output to line level were involved. For posterity, the pots on the DAC board do indeed control volume, but it looks like they are at default at the max position, so I left them that way. The two pots on the board bringing it up to line level seem to be at the right level about 50%, with the pots on the amplifier sounding about right at 25% each. There is definitely still room to bring it up, but since it is in an apartment, I didn't want it too loud.

        Thanks again everyone, I will report back once I have installed the LED kit and report on my progress with adding MIDI. Cheers!


        • #21
          I just made a Comment to post #10 about the Card Reader. I won't repeat it here. As noted above, Tone Cards do not go all the way into the reader--there is only data in the first 53 columns, later punches only identify the card.


          • #22
            So, I finally had enough time to wire in the kit from Harrison Labs. The instructions were pretty straight forward. I found that I didn't have a #9 or a 13/64 drill bit, and my 5/32 and 3/16 were a bit small, so I went ahead with a 1/4 inch, which worked fine. I had to drill out the light bulb plate, and also a small amount of the phenolic plate to get the LED's to fit. The wiring and soldering of the resistors and LED's was pretty straight forward. When I got it all together and fired the organ up, the new LED's lit up beautifully! Unfortunately though, I found that the card reader had stopped working. Now, when I select the card reader tones, I don't get any sound at all (previously there was the reed like tone), and when I select a slot, and feed the card in, there is no change. I checked the fuses on the card reader power supply, and they all look fine, so I'm stumped what to do next. I have also used some deoxit on the contacts of the card reader module, so I don't think that is what is causing it. I will go back and check all the card reader connections, and the voltage coming off the power supply next time I am there.

            Thanks Davide for the information about the cards - that makes sense that they don't go all the way in. Hopefully I'll be able to use the extra voices on the cards soon!

            Instead of the Yamaha mixer, I opted to get the Behringer Xenyx 1002FX instead. The reason was that it was going to take a long time for the Yamaha to be available from my local supplier, whereas the Xenyx was in stock. Also, after reading some other forum posts discussing using headphones with an Allen, I decided it would be nice to have the pan and reverb. The plan is to wire it to a headphone port, as well as have some aux out ports on the back of the organ. I'm also going to modify the organ with a power plug, speaker connection plates, and Midi Out/In on the back. I'll post pictures once those modifications are done! I know many people prefer the clean back look, but I like to have all the ports visible and easy to connect to. That also prevents the temptation to throw the cables into the body of the organ, where they can cause trouble.

            I still haven't received the parts for the MIDI conversion part of the project, so still waiting on that. Plenty of work to do before they arrive though! I also got some steel grille's for the HC 12's to replace the black mesh which was previously on the covers, and was damaged. I'll post pictures as well once they are ready to go. Thanks again everyone for the help!


            • #23
              Have you left the voltage adjustment to the card reader the same as it was for the incandescent lamps? It is possible that the LEDs are too bright and the reader is not distinguishing between the holes and paper. Try turning down the CR pot on the power supply until the LEDs are dim and then go up in 1/2 Volt increments to see if you can get a good read.
              Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Saville Series IV Opus 209; Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Gulbransen Rialto; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI.


              • #24
                You were totally right Larry, I just had to adjust the voltage on the card reader power supply, and everything worked perfectly! I found I also had to trim some of the wires I left a bit long, which were being pushed closer to the sensors when I closed everything up. The alternate voices are great! It makes me want to start programming my own! Next up setting up the mixer and custom ports while I wait for the arduino to arrive. Thanks again everyone!


                • #25
                  Glad to hear my suggestion worked for you. It was late when I posted that and I did not include the rest of the lamp adjust procedure. Typically you also want to find the upper limit of brightness where, as you discovered, the lamps are so bright they bleed through the paper and you cannot get a good read. Then you adjust the voltage mid-way between the two points where the cards don't read, high and low, to be at the perfect brightness level.
                  Larry is my name; Allen is an organ brand. Allen RMWTHEA.3 with RMI Electra-Piano; Allen 423-C+Gyro; Britson Opus OEM38; Saville Series IV Opus 209; Steinway AR Duo-Art, Mills Violano Virtuoso with MIDI; Hammond 9812H with roll player; Gulbransen Rialto; Roland E-200; Mason&Hamlin AR Ampico piano, Allen ADC-5300-D with MIDI.


                  • #26
                    Ah, that's very helpful Larry, thanks! I think I'm on the bottom end of the two points, so I will adjust it up until it stops working next time I'm at the organ, then put it right in the middle as you suggest.

                    I had some time today to wire the organ to the Mixer as well. With a little bit of reverb, and a little bit of mixing the channels, it sounds really good! Not to mention the volume is now much more easily adjustable. Next up is to mount the mixer to the inside wall of the organ. I plan to do this with a sheet of acrylic, drill some holes in it, and attach the screws from the mixer frame to the acrylic, then attach it to the inside left wall of the organ (from the back), and tidy up the cables with zip ties. When I get the headphone port, I will then wire the mixer to the port, and also 2 aux out ports. I'll post a picture of the finished build!


                    • #27
                      About the capture power supply... if it is indeed bad, which does sound to be the case, then you might want to keep an eye out on ebay, as parts for the older MOS organs come up quite frequently there, and usually they are cheap.

                      here is one that is listed for $90. It will probably cost a decent amount to ship, but I think could be had for >$200 shipped. I don't know what a new Allen supply would cost, but I would assume at least 5x that.