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Johannus Sweelinck 37 + 2 Walker B1000 Subwoofers + QSC CX302 Amp

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  • myorgan
    commented on 's reply
    I've purchased Allens from AL, NY, WI, NC, and AZ. Having so many Allens, I have discovered the Allen technician involved was a crapshoot. Some were installed well, while others were just connected and the tech left. Hopefully your Johannus technician is competent and the end result will be good for you for years to come!

    Michael

  • Ophicleide
    replied
    myorgan: We're having a Johannus technician do the installation.

    Leave a comment:


  • myorgan
    commented on 's reply
    In your geographic area, be careful of the "professional" you get. I can think of one "professional," with whom I would never do business with again. Hopefully, you can find a Johannus tech in your area to advise you. Otherwise, I can vouch for @Don60's advice, and I have done business with him and trust him.

    Michael

  • Ophicleide
    replied
    I'm grateful to all of you for taking the time to contribute to this thread. Still, unfortunately, I am unable to understand or visualize the suggestions sufficiently to enable us to do this installation ourselves. The subs are arriving today, so in the absence of a good understanding of how to do this, we will likely be calling on a professional to do the installation.

    Leave a comment:


  • don60
    commented on 's reply
    I have seen plenty of Sweelincks that have no internal speakers. Whether internals were standard or not, they could certainly have been deleted on special order.

  • don60
    commented on 's reply
    Walker rep is, with respect, full of crap. I AM a Johannus tech with access to all of their factory data, and Johannus has used the approach I described quite successfully for many years. It has multiple benefits with no downsides other than giving heartburn to Walker reps.

    As I said before, muting for turn on/turn off thump elimination and for headphone use is implemented IN THE POWER AMPLIFIERS. If you bypass the subwoofer power amp, you will lose this muting and have to go through five other convoluted steps to try to re-implement it another way.

    This approach is quite common in live sound--i.e., pulling a signal off a speaker output and attenuating it to line level for injection into a mixer or other similar equipment. If you are nervous about ground loops, a high-quality isolation transformer will provide all the protection you need.

    The advice about starting with the expression shoes closed is good. Keep levels low while dialing in the gain settings on new equipment.

    Expression in these organs is implemented digitally on the processor board.

  • mrdc2000
    commented on 's reply
    A very unusual situation, all Sweelincks that I have ever seen or heard of, all came with internal speakers. Externals were optional.
    Please send us a few pictures of the console, showing the keyboard and stop layouts as well as the electronics from the back.
    Can you confirm when the organ was manufactured ? Thank you.

  • Ophicleide
    replied
    Originally posted by mrdc2000 View Post
    There seems to be some vital information missing, such as: Since the new Walker woofers are external, what other external speakers is he using ?
    Are the internal speakers still being used, including the 12" woofer ?
    There are at least four external Johannus speaker cabinets being used. There are no internal speakers. The organ never had dedicated subwoofers. The original installers just used the woofer from a standard cabinet for the bass output.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrdc2000
    replied
    There seems to be some vital information missing, such as: Since the new Walker woofers are external, what other external speakers is he using ?
    Are the internal speakers still being used, including the 12" woofer ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ophicleide
    replied
    Originally posted by Ophicleide View Post
    Assuming the organ's amp controls the expression/volume, unless we can isolate the pedal stops that do not need to be under expression, none of these stops may be under expression.
    Our Walker Rep responded:

    "I don't know of any manufacturers who are presently using the amplifiers to do the expression function. There were a couple that did that back in the 70's/early 80's but as far as I know, everyone handles the expression in their audio processing and preamp sections of the tone generating system. I would be surprised if Johannus does that. Hopefully, your technician can shed some light on that as well. I would think the expression happens before the signal gets sent to the amplifier."

    Leave a comment:


  • Ophicleide
    replied
    I've reached out to our Rep from Walker Technical for suggestions, with a link to this thread, and got this reply:

    "I reviewed your email and the thread you have on the organ forum. We do not recommend connecting an amplifier in that manner. While technically you can do that as a last resort, I find it hard to believe there isn't somewhere in the organ that you can pick up the signal before it goes to their amplifier. I would suggest contacting your local Johannus technician and asking him to help you connect the amp.

    Since we don't connect our amps in the manner the folks on the thread were describing, we're not in a position to make any suggestions as to the values of resistors to use. If you do pursue connecting the amp in that manner, please make sure the expression shoes on the organ are closed so the input voltage isn't too high and damages the amplifier."


    I tend to agree with him that it would be best to bypass the organ's amplifier, if possible. Does anyone know how to do this? However, the feed from the organ's amp is for all 16' manual and pedal stops and the one pedal 32. Assuming the organ's amp controls the expression/volume, unless we can isolate the pedal stops that do not need to be under expression, none of these stops may be under expression.

    Leave a comment:


  • don60
    replied
    I started using Yageo resistors many years ago due to low cost and wide availability. A 1/4 watt 5% rating would be sufficient for your needs. Here is the link to a typical value from which you can deduce the part numbers of the others that you might need:

    https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...WHjNLfgw%3D%3D

    I will try to prepare a sketch of the attenuator circuit required at the sub cabinet. I will be guessing on the resistor values but should be close. You can always check the volume level and adjust as needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ophicleide
    replied
    Originally posted by don60 View Post
    Mouser Electronics, Digi-Key, and Parts Express are all the go-to suppliers for most of us in the organ business. Mouser and Digi-Key will have single resistors available in the full range of values, and all three suppliers carry the connectors. The basic part number for a three-pin male XLR is A3M, with various prefixes and suffixes denoting body material and pin plating.
    Thank you for all your suggestions in this thread! Our Walker subs and amp will be arriving this week, so we need to get our heads around these connections and the actual resistors and connectors we need. A search at mouser.com renders a multitude of options. Would you be so kind as to post some links to the actual parts we'll need? A look at these parts will also help us better visualize this project. We're still not able to fully visualize what gets connected to what. Any further assistance/suggestions will be much appreciated!

    Leave a comment:


  • don60
    commented on 's reply
    Michael, I never paid attention to phase in these cases and have not noticed any bass deficiencies. As you noted, all low frequencies across all of the channels play through this one speaker, so cancellation there is not an issue. Strictly speaking, in the crossover region both the bass and main channels are carrying some content and they should be phased. But in practice I have not detected this need. Even when I did note-by-note voicing, I have not found a need to bump up or bump down the levels in this transition region depending on the sub phasing. I know that boutique speaker companies such as Definitive make a huge deal about "phasing" their subs, but maybe it's just hype like the alleged need for $10 per foot speaker cable. It's worth playing with both phasings just to be sure, though, during an organ installation.

  • myorgan
    commented on 's reply
    Originally posted by don60
    So you take the two speaker wires from the bass channel 1 of the organ and run them to pins 2 and 3 of the connector--in this case a male XLR that would plug into the female socket on the amplifier.
    @don60

    On a Johannus, are there any concerns about phase when making the connections for the bass? My guess is "no" since you stated earlier the bass from all channels is combined in Channel 1 through a crossover. I just want to verify for the benefit of the OP.

    Thanks in advance.

    Michael
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