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Viscount Cantorum Trio or Viscount Vivace 90?

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  • Viscount Cantorum Trio or Viscount Vivace 90?

    Hi, I'm about to buy my first three manual organ and I'm torn between two options: for about the same price, I can get the Viscount cantorum trio (with pedalboard and the other staff included) or the Viscount vivace 90. The cantorum trio has slightly better sounds and a couple more stops, but on the other hand the vivace 90 seems a better approximation to a real organ experience. Since I don't have much experience with electronic organs, which one would you recommend me?

  • #2
    That's an easy one for me! If you ever think you're going to have to move, or play the organ elsewhere, the trio. If it's going to sit in one place and never be moved, get the Vivace. A fully appointed keydesk is the best and most comfortable, so the Vivace would be the better option, however there are many people who have to move around a lot! I've read posts by a lot of organists who have the Trio or Duo and really appreciate how easy it is to move on their own.

    Current: Allen 225 RTC, W. Bell reed organ, Lowrey TGS, Singer upright grand
    Former: Yamaha E3R
    https://www.exercisesincatholicmythology.com

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    • #3
      Thanks! No, I will not moving it, so the organ will sit in one place. My concern is about the fact that the cantorum trio is newer, but the Vivace seems more "complete" as an organ. Unfortunately, I didn't have the chance to try the Vivace, so I don't know the difference between the two in terms of key action. Soundwise they seem close

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      • #4
        Don't worry that it's newer, the technology is very similar, all integrated circuits and boards that need to be replaced if they go wrong. The key action should be the same, they are all fatar keyboards.

        Current: Allen 225 RTC, W. Bell reed organ, Lowrey TGS, Singer upright grand
        Former: Yamaha E3R
        https://www.exercisesincatholicmythology.com

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        • #5
          The difference in sound generation system between the Cantorum Trio and Vivace is enormous, all in favor of the Cantorum trio. The keyboards are not simple Fatar, but Fatar-Viscount, or rather a Fatar built on Viscount specifications, very different from the standard Fatar.
          A Cantorum Trio with added subwoofer sounds 1.000 times better than the Vivace.

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          • #6
            So for the sounds the cantorum trio is better. My aim is also to figure out which one is better for practicing and studying.

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            • #7
              I still say the Vivace. It's more of a real console, like a pipe organ. Also, don't forget opinions on the quality of the sound are subjective! If in doubt, try them both out if possible, or look for Youtube videos of each one in action. I've listened to videos of the Vivace, and they sound fine to me. But you're the one that has to live with the choice!

              Current: Allen 225 RTC, W. Bell reed organ, Lowrey TGS, Singer upright grand
              Former: Yamaha E3R
              https://www.exercisesincatholicmythology.com

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              • #8
                Subjective?
                Let's do the math:
                the Vivace technology was based on stops with a maximum of 5 samples (in many stops even less), short (a few dozen cycles per second), sampling frequency of 32Khz.
                Artem technology (contained in the Cantorum) is based on stops with about 12/15 samples across the entire keyboard, length of about 3 seconds, 48Khz sampling frequency, best DACs, best audio processors, best analog output section.
                The difference is abysmal.
                However the Cantorum does not have a good built-in subwoofer, so you will need to buy one separately if you want to hear the 16' and 32' stops correctly.‚Äč

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                • Larason2
                  Larason2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I guess I haven't told you of my story. I used to play my Hauptwerk setup for my wife, which has a sample for each pipe, at high resolution, etc. Then I fixed up my Mos-2 Allen 225 RTC from the early 80's, and played it for her, and she told me she thought the Allen sounded better! So it's not just about the technology. The numbers don't mean anything if you don't like how it sounds. If you don't call that subjective, then I don't know what is! Honestly I thought the Allen did pretty well, but I don't think it is better than Hauptwerk!

                • ahlborn
                  ahlborn commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I understand. There are people who would rather listen to 78rpm records than a good digital recording.
                  But the perception is subjective, not the technical content.

                • Larason2
                  Larason2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  That's fair enough too.

              • #9
                Thanks to both! I'm leaning more towards the Cantorum. The only downside is the fact that I have to "assemble" it, but the price is the same, so it's probably better to go with the new thing. One last question: can I use a 32 note pedalboard instead of the 30 that everyone uses? Clearly I have to buy another stand

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                • davidecasteel
                  davidecasteel commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I thought most standard pedalboards were 32 pedals (AGO standard). Of course, there are 25-note ones on some less expensive instruments.

                  David

                • ahlborn
                  ahlborn commented
                  Editing a comment
                  You can use a 32 note pedal board without any problems

              • #10
                Yes, but Viscount has made a stand specifically for the cantorum and designed to be paired with a 30 note pedalboard (midi). I think that shouldn't be a problem to use a 32 note one, but I've never seen a cantorum played with that

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                • Larason2
                  Larason2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  https://www.viscountinstruments.com/...e-concava-ago/

                  Take a look here. It's hidden on Viscount's website.
                  Last edited by Larason2; 03-29-2023, 01:29 PM. Reason: (inserted better link)

                • radagast
                  radagast commented
                  Editing a comment
                  But did you see the Cantorum Trio played with the table/stand, that they designed for it, and an AGO pedalboard, and it fit with the table/stand?

                • Larason2
                  Larason2 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ah, you might be right, though I would contact Viscount about it. I seem to recall hearing about someone who had a bench that would fit the 32. Here is Viscount's bench fitting with a 30 pedal pedalboard: https://www.midiworks.ca/index.php?o...product_id=448

              • #11
                Viscount's stand fits the 30-note pedalboard, but not the 32-note AGO pedalboard. The former is radiating/concave and a match for the AGO specs except for the omission of the top two notes.

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