Johannus Opus 30

[quantum]

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-s...QAdIdZ85414908</p>

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Would this be desirable, or not? For a transitional instrument for our church, until we can afford something really good.
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[arie v]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Quantum,</p>

It depends what your definition of desirable is.</p>

The Johannus Opus organs were their budget or entry level line of instruments. What this means is fewer samples, very short samples, small amplifiers, fewer audio channels,etc. The ones I have come across sounded less than inspiring. The Opus 30 was a model that was made for about 10 years, from 1996 to somewhere around 2005. They improved them little by little over that time.</p>

If you are interested in it, I would suggest you find out how old the instrument is. The best way is to get the serial number from the seller, and e-mail Johannus, and they will give you year of manufacture.</p>

One other thing to remember, the Opus organs were basically meant as residence or small chapel organs, even with external speakers added to them. They tended to sound noisy more than musical. In a church you definitely need external speakers, if only to improve dispersion of sound in the room. </p>

These organs are voiceable to a degree, just as other Johannus lines were.</p>

Best, I can say, is it can't hurt to try it out, and see if it meets your expectations. If it is 10 or more years old, I would offer less money for it. Remember too, to figure several thousand for speakers, some money for moving, and some funds for professional install and voicing - if you want it to sound up to potential.</p>

What do you expect a really "good" instrument would cost your church?</p>

AV
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[quantum]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Thanks Arie. </p>

Well right now they have a Conn 721 that is about 40% working. 12 pedal notes are dead and a lot of the swell is intermittant. None of the reeds work. I have to play it every Sunday, and it can be frustrating. </p>

Right now I'm thinking of a rough budget of $80k for a decent digital (but that could change). I don't know how far we would get with pipes, as there is no chaber in existance, and the design of the church may not be the best for them. Money may be a tight squeeze, as it is not a rich neighbourhood. Raising the money may take some time. I'm eyeing the Rodgers 928 or at the very least the Allegiant 778 as prospective instruments. Is my $80k budget way off for such insturments?</p>

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Just looking for somthing in the mean time would be inexpensive and in better playing condition that what we currently have.
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[Stefanussen]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Quantum,</p>

For $80K, you can do a lot better than an Opus 30. I would recommend talking to the folks at Classic Organ, they are a well known Canadian dealer of Ahlborn-Galanti, Walker, and Marshall and Ogletree. They can do a turn key Hauptwerk setup for you, and I think that would get you the most bang for your buck.</p>

If that sounds too rebel to you, then you could get a pretty decent Rodgers Trillium or Allen Quantum for a budget of $80K.
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[quantum]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Stefanussen,</p>

What would a turn key Hauptwerk setup involve?
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[Stefanussen]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Quantum,</p>

I would recommend that you direct any questions to Darryl Wood (905) 475-1263</p>

Classic does installations where they come in and install the organ for you. For the most part, all the organist needs to know is how to operate the on/off switch [:)] I recommended Hauptwerk because I think you'll get something that sounds quite a bit better than Allen or Rodgers (especially Johannus!) in terms of realism for potentially less money.
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[Menschenstimme]

Re: Johannus Opus 30

The idea of a turn-key Hauptwerk organ is a fascintating concept. I was hoping that someone would implement this.

[nullogik]

Re: Johannus Opus 30

[quote user="quantum"]


Right now I'm thinking of a rough budget of $80k for a decent digital (but that could change). I don't know how far we would get with pipes, as there is no chaber in existance, and the design of the church may not be the best for them. Money may be a tight squeeze, as it is not a rich neighbourhood. Raising the money may take some time. I'm eyeing the Rodgers 928 or at the very least the Allegiant 778 as prospective instruments. Is my $80k budget way off for such insturments?[/quote]</P>


US$80k is more than enough and you will be able to get a 3 manual Allen Renaissance Quantum for that money, probably a Q325C (50 stops) or Q300 (38 stops). Rodgers will have something very similar in size to what Allen offers at this price range - since the two are natural competitors.</P>


How large is your Church? I think with a nice complement of speakers a Q300 or Q325 will be a mighty fine instrument that should last you a long time for most small-medium sized Churches.</P>


Might I also suggest that you also have a look at what the likes of Ahlborn Galanti, Phoenix, Rodgers &amp; Johannus have to offer. Particular A-G and Johannus tend to be lower priced than theirUS counterpartsso you'll be able to get something bigger if the equivalent Allen/Rodgers is not sufficient enough for your needs. Phoenix organs has quite a following on here and they can easily build you a substantiallysized organ for US$80k or for less if you want some change left over.</P>


You mention money might be tight. You might need to do some homework (ie. ring up organ dealers) but from time to time fairly new (5-6 year old) digitals such as an Allen Renaissance will come up that might cater to your needs if fundraising proves to be difficult. Such instruments don't come along often though as once Churches buy them they tend to keep them for 20-30 years but they do pop up. Alternatively an ex-demo/showroom model might be another avenue to consider.</P>


Good Luck!</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Q,</P>


You mention a possible budget of $80K, which is, as has been said, a nice figure to work with.How large is the church? How many seats in the sanctuary? $80K would buy a good-sized organ for a smallto medium size room, but you might need to spend more in a large room. It's probably realistic unless you have seating for more than about 700 people.</P>


However, I'm guessing you're needing a interim solution -- perhaps that $80K purchase is a few years down the road.That old Conncould possibly be repaired.I played for years on a 721, so Iknow it's a decent model, if somewhatbarebones. Early 1960's tube technology, butrepairable. We kept ours going until we found something better a few years ago.</P>


The Opus 30 in the ad would be a vast improvement over the Conn, though. To my ears and fingers, the Opus 10/20/30 models (which were in production until just 3 years ago) were quite nice. Sure the Opus models are the entry level, and were intended as chapel or home organs. But I know several churches that bought them and have had a very good experience with them. I know one large reverberant Catholic church using one without any external speakers, and it sounds awesome!</P>


If the one in the ad is not too old, has been well cared for, has no problems, then it might be a good thing. You might try getting the price down a little. The quoted price seems just a tad high to me.</P>


It has a straight-forward 4-channel audio system, so it would be noproblem to tie into the inputs on the internal amps (standard RCA plugs/jacks) and go into four channels of high-power audio, play it through some good quality commercial speakers. And you'd have an organ -- not the equivalent of the $80K organ you eventually want, but a "Quantum" leap from the old Conn!</P>


But you should go and play it for yourself and then judge it.</P>


John</P>
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[Clarion]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



[quote user="quantum"] Well right now they have a Conn 721 that is about 40% working.12 pedal notes are dead and a lot of the swell is intermittant. None of the reeds work. I have to play it every Sunday, and it can be frustrating. [/quote]</P>


Sounds like the Conn electronics arepretty much dead, but you still have a well crafted console and pedalboard of sufficient quality, that gutting it and installingnewelectronics and key boards would savemajor $$$ and provide you with the biggest bang for your bucks if you are dealing with very limited financial resources, i.e.:</P>


http://phoenixorgans.com/installatio...nstallation=86
</P>


This basically the same organ you now have, except its a real oldie, several generations removed from the Conn 721. New keyboards and pedal switches, plus some really super stuff on the inside provides a rather attractive option Phoenix does a lot of this kind of work, and can provide rather amazing turnaround time, i.e.:</P>


http://phoenixorgans.com/installatio...nstallation=56</P>


The turnaround time for this refurbished Rodgers was only two weeks!!The price Phoenix quoted me on having my old two manual console rebuilt was really attractive. I certainly would have gone that route, if it hadn't been for the fact that I had already decided upon a three manual organ; and my wife had decided that oak was definitely not an option!! So now they have rebuilt my old console for someone else. You would be surprized at how many old re-buildable consoles they get stuckwith, in an effort to make room for new installations. [;)] But as mastercraftsmen, they can do a pretty wonderful job of transforming an ancient console into something attractive.</P>


'Suppose another option is to get a new, but totally affordable organ such as the one installed in St. Peters, on a tiny island onStonyLake, for a cottage country church that is only open 13 weeks oftheyear. </P>


http://phoenixorgans.com/installatio...nstallation=54</P>



I don't know what your immediate budget is, but I figure it couldn't be less than for this intriguing seasonal cottage church.</P>


Their are some really economical options out there, such as:</P>


http://phoenixorgans.com/pdf/Tab_PT_219.pdf</P>


One of the advantages of dealing with a custom builder, is that you can start out small, and have the instrument modified and updated as funds become available. If you state your intended course of action from the outset, they the manufacturer will design the instrument to easily incorporate future expansion.</P>


In my experience, if you contact Phoenix with areasonably well laid out game plan; and perhaps including photos and a rough diagram with measurements of the layout of your church,they will getback to you with all of the options priced out for you. And if you are not inclined to favour a Phoenix, at least you have an informed reference point to compare against other offerings.</P>

[arie v]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



John,</p>

I guess my ears must be more sensitive than yours. I never came across a Johannus Opus 10/20/30 that sounded much good either with external speakers or just internals, in a residence or lively acoustic space. My ears always told me that these organs were budget, few samples (that didn't really sound that good), samples with really short loops, etc. The ensemble sound always just sounded very electronic.
</p>

From what I remember, the Sweelink and Rembrandt organs are noticeably better, especially the ones of more recent manufacture.</p>

If you are going to spend big bucks on audio to try to make an older Opus organ sound good, you might as well start off with something new that sounds better.</p>

AV
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[arie v]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Stefanussen,</p>

I agree with you about Hauptwerk. I think this system is (or has potential) to sound better than Allen, Rodgers, A-G, Viscount, Johannus, Phoenix, etc. And it costs less. And to boot is more interesting. If you are interested in a Schnitger organ, Silbermann, Cavaille-Coll, etc, you can get sample sets from these builders that are like virtual historic prints. And the system is voiceable, scaleable, flexible in terms of audio etc. And you can have many different organs loaded onto a single computer.</p>

I believe the future of the digital organ is not based on quasi late 90s proprietary platforms but on PC or Apple Macs. The power of these machines far outclasses what little organ companies can come up with. At least I doubt that any of these companies can compete with Intel or AMD. It is not only the amount of memory that can be addressed simultaniously, but the thru-put that is important. The thing is with the price of PCs these days, it no longer makes sense to try to build organs using custom hardware. And software based electronics is increasingly the way of the future.</p>

I spend most of my days now selling pianos and digital pianos in a store. The store sells Yamaha Clavinovas and Kurzweil digi-pianos. These are considered among the best if not at least better digitals. Certainly the Clavinovas are the most popular around the world. Anyways, they use custom chips, moderate number of samples, a number of different dynamic levels, etc. But in my opinion, the $300 soft-synth modelling program from PianoTek sounds better. Also, the piano sample set from Ivory sounds better. These can be run on a standard PC. If Yamaha can't make a digital piano that beats a little inexpensive software piano, I seriously doubt that any much, much smaller organ company can compete with the likes of Hauptwerk.</p>

I think there is room for ready made products from organ companies, but unless they quickly improve and start using PC type platforms, they will lose sales, and ultimately fail.</p>

I give the industry less than 3 years to upgrade..................................or they will be in the same boat as GM, Ford and Chrysler.......struggling to survive. Only the government will never bail out an organ company.</p>

AV
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[arie v]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Hi,</p>

I'm not sure why anyone would want to re-build a typical Conn Artist organ. While the console itself wasn't too bad, the pedalboard and related hardware was real cheesy. I'm not sure they even conformed to AGO specs. Most service calls I did on Conn organs related to pedalboard problems, or the tuning of the pedal pitches.
</p>

As one who did some re-building, refinishing, retro-fitting, the amount of effort and costs, to re-build, at least a small older electronic organs, versus building a new console, the savings are not that great. Wood for a console pedalboard and bench, is not so much for a small console as to cost that much. By the time you transport a console, gut it, strip the finish, sand it down, re-finish, re-do the inside, you have spent more time working on it, than doing a new basic (standard) console. For a 3-manual drawstop console, savings might be considerable, but for a low end rebuilding job, likely savings amount to less than $1,000.</p>

When I did some re-builds, it was that the customer thought they could get a lower cost instrument. They did, but the company made less money. Also, for the most part it was if the customer had the console and there was some sentimental attachment to it. </p>

AV
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[jbird604]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



Arie,</P>


I'm still waiting for a truly plug and play PC organ. I've tinkered with several of the virtual organs and have found the sound quite amazing. Everything you say about HW is true. And the PC platform is dirt cheap, fast, ubiquitous,and fully capable of emulating any imaginable organ.</P>


However, two kludges remain in the way, IMHO: (1) Windows and (2) User-friendliness.</P>


Windows, while XP and Vista are apparently a million times more stable than any earlier version, I just wouldn't want to bet my music program on it. Windows-based PCs can lock up, crash, refuse to boot, or become unstable at the most inopportune moments. Two minutes before a funeral, wedding, or worship serviceyou don't want to have to hit Ctrl-Alt-Del and cross your fingers.</P>


User-friendliness -- Nothing beats your basic "push-the-power-button-and-play" feature of the standard organ console. Certain current model organs from the major companiesneeda good portion of a minuteto "boot up" every time and will go into convulsions if one accidentally turns the power off and then right back on. Then it might take it5 or 6minutes or longer torecover.This is bad enough. I long for the good old days when you could just turn it on and it was ready to use.</P>


But a PC-based organ will require the user to first boot up the computer, wait for Windows (or Linux or Mac) to do its three or four minute startup thing (I'm exagerating, but it seems that long), then find the program icon and double-click a mouse (which is actually quite difficult for many older users -- thought I'd never teach my parents to do it!). Then wait another minute or two while the huge program loads. If it's a soundfont based emulator your using, you'd better hope that Windows didn't forget to load your soundfonts when you booted up, or else you'll get no sound from your virtual organ and then you've got to start all over again.</P>


If you're using a touch-screen, you've got to master the trick of touching the on-screen controls just right (imagine the touch-screen voting machines we just used, but with dozens of virtual knobs). Also, you can't just simultaneously cancel a bunch of stops, you've got to do one at a time, and if you accidentally touch one twice, it's back on.</P>


So, IMHO, virtuals need someone to take the concept and make it practical for the little old lady tottering up to the organ bench every Sunday. If one of the major companies will grab the idea and run with it, perhaps it will happen.</P>


But they sure are fun to play with, even now. </P>


John</P>
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[arie v]

Re: Johannus Opus 30



John,</p>

From what I know, Hauptwerk , played on the Mac environment is very stable, latency is not a problem, etc. You can utilize the sleep mode, so it doesn't take long to start up and play. The Windows platform is still not as bullet-proof as the Mac, but as you say much more so than previous. My guess is that when Hauptwerk becomes available on Linux, it will work very well on PCs as well.</p>

There are console control systems out there, that can control Hauptwerk seamlessly from a standard console, so it behaves exactly like a traditional digital organ. Hauptwerk just works on the MIDI protocol. At least one digital organ manufacturer has organs where Hauptwerk stops can be interchanged with their own stops, and it works totally seamlessly.</p>

If you haven't played with the most recent Hauptwerk setup, with a recent sample set, you don't know how well the system can perform. Hauptwerk today is far better than 2 or 3 years ago. </p>

Works so well, I am surprised that manufacturers are not supplying consoles, and bits for this emerging market. I guess part of the problem is that a lot of folks who are into this kind of thing are hobbyists, who like it because it is less expensive.</p>

I know Hauptwerk must be a concern to organbuilders. Sales of Hauptwerk are climbing steeply every year, while ready made instrument sales are in steady decline.</p>

AV
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