Allen TC12a, b TC-3

[buzzyreed]

Hi everyone!

I am wondering if anyone has any advice for me on the above mentioned Allen prehistoric models. I would like to purchase one for my school. I will be mainly using it for choir accompanying in the choir room, but will have to move it to the auditorium and once a year to a T.V. station for our Christmas telecast. The TC12a which I could get is a bit out of my price range, but I could scrape together enough if I REALLY tried. This is an all in one unit so it would be easier to move back and forth (only about once a year, mind you). The TC-12b I could get is much, much cheaper, but it has three or four large speakers. The TC-3 is also a bit pricey for this use, but it has three occilator units as opposed to the mainly 'flute' occilator of the TC-12a. But,it has one very large speaker that would be diffucult to move to the T.V. station. I dont' have any information on the stop list of the TC-12b.

My questions to you wonderful folks are these:
1. Would the TC-12a's mainly flute character be adequate for general practice (I already have an excellent practice organ at home, so it woudl be for the students' use).

2. Does anyone know how to modify one of the TC-12bs or TC-3s so that they use fewer or smaller speakers?

3. What is the stop list of the TC-12b.

I am sure someone out there has had the same questions and has, through experience, found the answers and is willing to share. I love this forum for that very reason.
Well thanks in advance!

[soundboarddude]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

I've been looking on a few sites for a TC12a or b and can't seem to find anything.

I've never actually played a TC12 but I have played a TC15 and consider it a wonderful instrument... If the 15 is anything like the 12 it would be adequate for general practice... If I remember correctly there were one or two reeds with a few mixtures but mainly flutes...

I'll look some more for the TC12 or TC3 and a stop list...

Good luck!

sbd

[buzzyreed]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

There is a TC-12 "C" on ebay. It is always funny to see the way organs are described by non organists. I know my typing is bad, but to call them, "foot pedals" just makes my skin crawl. What has happend to American Musical Education? I know I teach a unit on Organ in my general music classes. But, again, I digress..

Now, if I can only figure out how to use smaller speakers.
Does anyone else understand how they work on the Allen? Could I just hack into the chord and put a 1/4" phone plug on the end and plug it into a guitar amp? I don't need, nor desire the 'gyro' function.
Thanks in advance all!

[Guest]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

Is the '12a' mentioned is actually a TC-12A, rather than a T-12A?

As I understand the older Allen nomenclature: 'TC' implies console-only , without
internal amps/speakers, and 'T'-alone implies self-contained (but well capable of
driving an external amplifier/speaker combination). Thus, a T-12A is self-contained,
and a TC-3 is console only, with external amps/speakers required (consistent with
the specific examples I have encountered).

The item I saw on 'Ebay' is actually a T-12A. I own one just like it. This is a general
description of my instrument:

1. This organ is basically a unit flute, available on multiple pitch levels--generally, a one-rank
'unit' instrument--albeit, a very good single rank!.

2. This unit would be VERY easy to use with external speakers; in fact, we have used ours
with a guitar amp (really does need to be a BASS amp, or keyboard full range--regular
guitar amps will be lacking in responding to 16' pitch levels!). The connection at the
amplifier is a simple RCA plug--just install a 'Y'-cable (one female to two males), and
connect the now-available male source (female RCA-to-male 1/4" will do just fine).
I do NOT recommend leaving the console amplifier without its intended input--our
amplifier is of very high gain to handle the low signal level (more below), and hums
quite distinctly without its designed input actually connected (or, a person could unplug
the AC power to the internal amplifier).

3. The 'gyro' function is easy enough to disable--just unplug the AC power to the electric
motor which turns the 'gyro'.

4. I have had students practice on my instrument regularly. In fact, there is some benefit
to students NOT having access to anything fancy (IMHO). They must concentrate
on handwork, footwork, and listening--again, my opinion only.

Be aware, though--the Allen tone-generator signal level is HIGHER level than a guitar, but
LOWER level than a standard pre-amplifier outputl (probably around 50 mv, for those
nclined in engineering). Please make certain your external-amp levels are set to MINIMUM,
and bring the levels up slowly--to avoid blowing an expensive speaker!

Incidentally, I will be listing my T-12A for sale shortly...just acquired a Rodgers 990.

rgds...

DWM

[buzzyreed]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

Yes, you are correct. I am surprised my very fastidious organ dealer never pointed this error out to me. In the hundreds of emails I never noticed the error.

I was thinking about the bass amplifier situation. Since the school already owns serveral, well, as we say in Swedish, "Varsaga!"

Thanks for your answers. I so LOVE this forum!

[buzzyreed]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

Ooooooookk..

So I have decided to purchase the TC-3 and make it all work out. But, I still have a stupid engineering/ marketing question...

Why on earth does this thing not have any mixtures on it? I mean, people, people, people! What the HELL?

I suppose I could 'fake' it by putting on the mutations, etc.. but I mean really.. these things were supposedly used in churches? Why would they not have mixtures? I seem to remember now our organist back in the day would attempt to add mixtures on one of these things, but instead basically.. well I think she used a combination of mutation stops. Of course being only 10 years old I had no idea why the last verse of the hymn of the day always sounded at once bizzare and unfufilling.

Does anyone else have experience 'faking' it like that?

[fuguebwv582]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3

I played an Allen at a small country church about 25 years ago. You are correct in thinking (even at 10 years of age) that the last stanza of the hymn was weird. Also weird were the fake purcussions like chimes and whatever else it had. That darned thing went flat at the end of its decay. I hated to use it. The Allen I used only had flutes and diapasons that, with the flip of a tab, became stopped flutes (with or without an annoying chiff sound) and the diapasons became violas or dulcianas. The so-called trumpet was the flute rank coupled at 8, 4, 2, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5 and 1 1/7. Had there been more ranks of generators tuned true, the synthesis just might have been convincing to someone standing on the front porch. Unfortunately, it was just plain hokey. It was a very unsatisfying instrument for me but the church folks were happy, I guess.

Even more astounding about the lack of mixtures was our large six division, four manual, E. M. Skinner at my church here in Springfield, Ohio. It had no mixtures prior to about 1988 when the organ console was refitted with new electrical stuff and the sole Great mixture was added. There weren't even any good mutations. The organ was of a horizontal (vs. a vertical) tonality. Lots and lots of 8 foot stops. I always thought it should be outfitted with a really good tremulant and turned into a theater organ. The people in the parish loved it, though. They had been told so many times that it was such a treasure that they believed it! It sounded like a tug boat. Fortunately, the organ has recently had many new stops added from the G. Donald Harrison era at Skinner, and the tonal complement has improved. There are still many stops in it that should quietly be given a burial at sea so they can find a blessed rest with other fog horns. I have been told in the past that the chests in the organ were put together incorrectly. The organ plays a lot of notes by itself on start up and shut down due to this condition. I'm not sure old E. M. knew exactly what he was doing in the late nineteen teens when this organ was built. When I had access to that organ, though, I loved every second of it. It made and still makes a mighty sound!

I guess the moral of this tale is that you shouldn't be too surprised that a simple two rank Allen analog of the 1960s or 70s doesn't have a mixture.

[toodles]

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Post deleted by author

[buzzyreed]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3 update

I do have 3 ranks of generators. I just don't have any reeds on the pedal and the only reed that sounds like a reed is the oboe. The trumpet on the same maunal is rather, um, un reed like.

[Guest]

Re: Allen TC12a, b TC-3 update

I have read this thread with a good deal of interest, as I actually own a TC-3S which I acquired about two years ago. I have finally moved into a location where I have been able to set it up and I am quite happy with it. The console is certainly full size (AGO) and I am thinking that someone at the factory possibly reconsidered the pedal stops at some point in the model's history. There are a few reeds on the pedal and the swell, but the great only has the 8' Trumpet.

Like your TC-3, my TC-3S had a set of chimes, but I was not lucky enough to get the setup with the volume control (I guess they hardwired the volume to a constant level?) At least I got the chimes though.

I'm glad to see there are other folks out there with the TC-3 series organs!