Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?

[cantornikolaos]

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My church has an Allen MDS MDS-26 console. It has an antiphonal speaker and general coupler to activate the antiphonal. There are two speakers in the choir loft of the church and two more near the chancel. Our church is a traditional Byzantine basilica with a dome. It is extremely beautiful and the acoustics are amazing!</P>


I have a lot of questions about this particular instrument and have not had them satisfied by the local Allen people. They are actually very dodgy and avoid answering my questions. I have asked them questions about the MDS technical data, not secret companyinformation, but questions like "How many channels does it have?" or "Can it sound more realistic with more speakers and a subwoofer or two?" or even "Is there an MDS console that has a really nice installation that I can go play and/or listen to?". </P>


I am really sorry that we have an Allen and if I ever have anything to say about the matter, that thing will be hauled out immediately. I think it is only there because the people who are responsible for choosing it need their ego stroked even at the expense of the Church's music. I never cease to be amazed at how bad the sound is! It floors me that Allen would allow one of their products that is this recently made to sound this bad weather it is by the design of the instrument or by the speaker configuration. It sounds very much like a tube organ and not much like a pipe organ. I would love to see a small pipe organ in there, but again, some freakin' board member needs his ego stroked. </P>


Because of my experience, I am not a fan of Allen Organ Company and I would never recommend an Allen to anyone even though I know that the newerAllen consolesdo sound very nice and theyseem to beruggedly constructed. Ours should sound equally nice without shelling out another $40,000 or more. </P>


I have played it a few times, but I am not the church organist. I was able to get some good sound but sometimes it is hit or miss depending on the registration.The Krummhorn and Trumpetsound surprisingly good, but I am the only person to use them. Sometimes the Principal and Mixture sound good. </P>


Can anyone give me detailed specs of the MDS-26? I really want to know how many channels it has. I suspect that the speaker system is woefully inadequate and that could be a large part of the problem with the sound. I don't know how much difference there is between the Renaissance and the MDS, but I have heard a 16 channel Renaissance console with large speaker array sound very much like a pipe organ. For as much money as the MDS cost, every division should have multiple channels.</P>


Does anyone here have an MDS console with a very nice installation and a pleasant musical experience? Can anyone tell me how many channels it has? Can anyone post recordings or links to recordings of an MDS-26 or other MDS console that has a nice sound?</P>


As much as I would love to see the MDS go, it would be much easier to correct the installation if that can be done. I would love to become a fan of Allen, but that will only happen if what sound I am subjected to isn’t the most horrendous, ugly sound I have ever heard. </P></FONT>

[jck56]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?



Nikolaus,</P>


I am not the organist at our church. But, our church has an MDS-55 (bought sometimein the very early 90's).Our MDS has five speakers set up high on the left side of the nave, and another five speakers high on the right sidewhich are really antiphonal, butcan be used as an echo or combined to fill the sanctuary. We also have the largest sub-woofer Allen provided at that time.In a conversation with our Allen dealer some years back,he stated the MDS-55 puts out 500 watts. Most digitals run at about 100 watts per channel so I am assuming that ours is about5 channels. Our brick sanctuary seats approximately 700, the congregation is seated in a half circle with the altar in the front.The floor is carpeted, so I will say theaccoustics are somewhat dry.</P>


Overall, we have been satisfied with our MDS-55. When registered properly, the sound is quite nice and typically fills the space. I have had the opportunity to play the instrument (with an empty sanctuary), and have had the occassion to rumble the walls and/or soar some trumpet tunes with it.</P>


In the previous sentence I say "typically fills the space", because there is one drawback. Our church has a very high clerestory. Sometimes when the church is packed (SRO), if your behind the clerestory the sound leveldrops. The church has been looking at a sanctuary expansion and a possible upgrade to a larger Quantum to resolve that.</P>


With all that said, there is another congregationnearby that has an MDS 55 in a smaller rectagular sanctuary. The speaker system is not near as elaborate, and I can tell a drop off in the sound quality. It does not fill the space and provide the depth that the set up in our sanctuary does. Sometimes it sounds like your listening to FM with a loud clock radio.</P>


One other point, back to oursanctuary. Our current organist is "excellent", he really knows how to register and get the most "effect" for whatever the literature is meant to portray.Our previous organist, played the music well, but basically stayed withPrincipals and Flutes.I can't recall ever hearinganyMixtures,Reeds, or 32' stops,and yes at that time the organ did leave a little to be desired. </P>


I wish I had some technical specs to offer. At one time I had an Allen produced cassette oforgan recordings at our church, but unfortunately sometime back my car was broken into and my tape case was stolen. So I do not have any samples to post.</P>


I would agreeif the speaker system is lacking, the organ performance will be significantly degraded. Also, it would be interesting how the instrument was voiced when installed. </P>


Overall, I would say thatwe are satisfied with our MDS 55, but for theexpanded sanctuary we will need a larger organ and speaker system.</P>


I hope this helps</P>


Amateur Jerry</P>
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[Menschenstimme]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?



Hi Nick,</P>


I would agree with Jerry. In the building you describe, an Allen MDS should be able to sound quite agreeable and satisfying, with the proper set up of speakers and amplifiers. Perhaps try to contact Allen directly rather than your local Allen people. Is it possible that the local Allen people are not being more helpful because they know that the church may not be interested in spending the money for a better sound system for the organ?</P>


Just my thoughts - hope they help . . .</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?



Nikolaos,</P>


Too bad you're not getting better performance from that organ. MDS organs are capable of sounding really wonderful. Some people like them better than Renaissance models.That oneis, however, a fairly small model, possibly undersized for the church, especially since the audio in that model is mixed down to just two channels.</P>


The "W5" tone generator module which is the heart of all MDS/W5 organs actually puts out 4 discrete channels plus an optional sub-bass channel. There are some mixing switches that determine how many separate channels are output.</P>


So theoretically it could have four channels plus a sub, but it would take a knowledgeable and willing tech to make this change. The church would also have to be willing to pay for the additional 3 channels of amplification and additional speakers.</P>


If the moneyis available, I'd try to find an authorizedAllen tech sympathetic to your situation, have him convert it to a four or five channel organ, and really beef up the speaker system. That would give you the tonal resources of a larger organ without having to replace it. It would cost perhaps a few thousand dollars, though.</P>


Sad to say, many organs I run across are poorly installed with corners cut in the wrong places. Good luck.</P>


John</P>
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[SuperOktav]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?

What year were these instruments built? I ask just because my church has an Allen from 1984, and despite its age and audio system issues, it still sounds pretty good. I have a You Tube video of it if anyone wants to hear, but beware I am an amateur and just getting back into music. [:$]

[Menschenstimme]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?

I think that the MDS instruments are approximately 1990--1995?

[arie v]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?



Nikolaos,</P>


John is quite correct when he says, "sad to say, many organs are poorly installed with corners cut in the wrong places".</P>


I have found with Allens, when installed by a piano dealer who happens to sell some organs, that while the install was usually neatly done, there was little or no voicing done. In other words, no real organ person was ever involved in the install. Usually the overall volume was set fairly close to what it should have been, but the balancing between treble and bass, and between the various groups of stops, in the case of the MDS organs was way off.</P>


I did a service call last year on an MDS-30 LDS instrument, and the organ just sounded wrong. Had no bass, no treble, the stop volumes didn't seem to make sense. After tuning the organ to the piano, I went through all the adjustments, and voiced the organ to what I thought was the way it was supposed to sound. The organ turned from being totally dull and uninspired to a quite respectable little organ. I was even royally thanked for the improvement made. </P>


Late last year, I voiced a new digital organ in upstate NY. The organ that was dumped, was an Allen Renaissance, not more than 7 or 8 years old. Apparently, the organ sounded bad in the church. The dealer did not know anything about voicing, the voicing was done by a tech. who knew how to run the software program. I am sure, if the organ had been properly voiced, it may have been a reasonable install. Instead, everyone involved was fed up with the instrument and pitched it. </P>


I think your church instrument could be made to sound better than it is, just by adjusting the various groups of stops, and the treble and bass for each group. I believe there is also adjustable air sound for each group. Allen's supplied audio, even for smaller organs is usually sufficient to fill a good sized room. Normally I set the amps to about 8, and voice the various groups from there. On most Allen installs, there is a voicing chart given, so it is fairly straight forward what to do.</P>


AV</P>
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[arie v]

Re: Can the Allen MDS-26 sound realistic with a good speaker configuration?



MenchenStimme,</P>


MDS models were built from about 1990 to 1997.</P>


AV</P>